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32wedge
(@32wedge)
Silver Moderator
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 697
Virginia
Middle School
Only / Head Coach
August 30, 2018 7:50 am  

Most agree here that bad coaching is a top reason for the decline in youth football participation. So why do we think in this sutuation that it doesn't at least partially apply. I would argue it is a huge part of the reason the player wants to quit. Honestly, who wouldn't? No way I stick around to kick grass all practice and then get screamed at on game day because I am not blocking anyone. I just see some hyrocrisy going on here.

I completely agree with your points, but the OP asked for advice. 

He can allow his kid to quit, or he can try to become involved in coaching that team as was suggested, or he can encourage his kid to finish and make the best of this season, or he can make the situation worse by creating even more drama by undercutting the coaches.

My advice is to teach his kid to finish the season and do the best he can wherever the coaches put him.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4148
August 30, 2018 7:52 am  

I went back and read the OPs posts. I'm trying to find a common ground between a crappy offensive line that stands around most of practice and a team trying to compete for a national championship.

What really stood out to me is this:

Now I've coached plenty of travel baseball teams and some football at this age, where I generally try to play kids where they are comfortable, and I will never put a child in a position or situation  where they do not want to play, although it could diminish their playing time, and I let them know that.

So imagine the first week of practice and it's time to start placing players. "Okay, who wants to play Offensive Tackle?" When no hands go up, what do you do?

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 12408
August 30, 2018 8:18 am  

I went back and read the OPs posts. I'm trying to find a common ground between a crappy offensive line that stands around most of practice and a team trying to compete for a national championship.

What really stood out to me is this:

So imagine the first week of practice and it's time to start placing players. "Okay, who wants to play Offensive Tackle?" When no hands go up, what do you do?

Bad coaching makes it worse. There are at least a dozen threads here about how to make the oline more attractive. We all know how poor a job most youth coaches, even decent ones, do with that. We all deal with kids playing oline who don't want to. The coaches who end up with solid olines actually motivate and coach those kids. Doing that can really change the attitude of the oline.


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Coach Brad
(@coachbradfromcanada)
Bronze
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 458
August 30, 2018 8:44 am  

Nobody has made any ultimatums, he is the best offensive linemen they have, he is the best dt they have

Then why is it a question that he would play any other position?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17400
North Carolina
High School
August 30, 2018 8:49 am  

The coaches who end up with solid olines actually motivate and coach those kids. Doing that can really change the attitude of the oline.

I love coaching offensive linemen.  Last year at EWHS, I'd be doing line drills and our group would be working hard together and encouraging each other, then I'd look over at Coach W's backfield group with all the high drama, egos and histrionics that can go with it.  Coach W would come over to our group and ask, "Can I just stay over here with you guys?"  lol

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CaliforniaDreaming605
(@californiadreaming605)
Copper
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 6
September 4, 2018 8:39 am  

Then why is it a question that he would play any other position?

Just to be clear, all we ever wanted was for him to have the opportunity to play another position during scout or in a blowout the possibility to play another position.  I was told point blank no, not ever.  Why is that?  Kind of hard to swallow as a dad, and was not what we were told when we signed up.    Would I coach, absolutely, however I cannot commit the time required in order to be successful.  Would my son quit, never.    Again, in baseball, if a kid doesn't want to play a position for me fine, might go from 1st string RF, to 4th String SS.  I'm not going to throw him out, but I will let him know where he stands in regards to playing time, and that we really need him as a team at RF.  Thanks for all the advice.

I hope everyone has a great season!!!


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17400
North Carolina
High School
September 4, 2018 9:56 am  

and was not what we were told when we signed up.

Then you have a right to be upset.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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flosman
(@flosman)
Silver
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 615
October 1, 2018 9:18 pm  

Nobody has made any ultimatums, he is the best offensive linemen they have, he is the best dt they have, however until I see some assistant coaches kids (any of them) playing next to him on the o-line, who are the lb's and their kids who play backup fullback and third string fullback, when the rest of o-line stinks, and basically telling me that he is selfish that he asked if he can compete for another defensive position even as a backup during a blow out?  The "any reputable football coach wouldn't stand for this" is kind of shocking at 11u age, which should be more developmental than trying to win a national championship.  It's very hard for an 11u kid to enter a new team, that is supposedly playing for a championship, with no friends on the team, and then say he is playing for himself.  Of course he is playing for himself.  He is there to develop his skills, so when he plays big boy football, he has a semblance of an idea of what is going on.

Well just to let you know it sounds like he is being forced to "develop his skills...big boy football... semblance... of what's going on." As a Hs football coach at a pretty good program we don't care much about what the player wants to play. We do have the kids put what positions they have played and what teams, if any they have played for on their inital paperwork. WE CARE EVEN LESS about what they know or what they did in youth ball. We evaluate every player when they come to us in the spring of there 8th grade year. This is done initially by measurables. Then we look at work ethic, commitment and leadership during pre spring ball workouts. During this work out period we move guys around a good bit. BUT right before spring ball starts players are assigned position groups. We go over personnel once a week during actual practice periods, i.e. spring, summer, fall. Again some players move based on what they bring to the table. BUT you might notice the players wants are not part of the evaluation. Player ability and program needs are how we make decisions. When a player says, or even a parent, Johnny should  be say a LBer, I have no problem telling them what we demand in that position on Friday night and what we think a player at Johnny s point should be if he is going to be a LBer. IF you want to be something show up with the tools to do that. But until then the team is first and you need to just learn how to be a great football player where your at!!!!!

You know we lose a couple of guys here and there when we do things the way we do. Heck every one of the schools that adjoin  our district have a starting QB that originally was with us. But hear this we are looking and developing guys that will help us win games in November and December. Guys that are me guys and are not team first are not going to help us do that. So we are fine losing a third string QB who decides he won't play some other position. We also have a MLB manager who comes in every year to tell guys at our school that until you  are on actual draft boards don't just play baseball.

So you see you son is learning something valuable about  big boy football. If he goes anywhere worth a darn in football they are going to teach him how to play from scratch, like he has never played before. So see what position he played is not important. But learning to be mentally and physically tough, how to work and be committed to the team at his age is something that will actually help him in the future.


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
Diamond
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7614
Illinois
Other
Club Admin
October 2, 2018 6:00 am  

Funny all the "Can I?" questions we get during practice and the season are responded with "I dont know, can you?"  Auditions are short and sweet.  As a guy who doesn't have a "Dog in the Hunt" I have a whole different perspective on who plays where.  So with that in mind you can propose, advocate, or petition, all you want regarding what position Junior should play, the bottom line is he plays where his abilities give US the best bang for the buck.  Sometimes, its not the "Glory" position many aspire their child to be, but the inglorious position that drives the team to W's.

I'd take a great Guard over a bruising FB every day of the week.  A Great Guard can make an average FB look like Czonka, however, a Great FB looks like garbage with a bad line!  Opportunity to shine comes in many forms.  Get picky and your opportunities dwindle. 

Just sayin. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4148
October 2, 2018 6:32 am  

Well just to let you know it sounds like he is being forced to "develop his skills...big boy football... semblance... of what's going on." As a Hs football coach at a pretty good program we don't care much about what the player wants to play. We do have the kids put what positions they have played and what teams, if any they have played for on their inital paperwork. WE CARE EVEN LESS about what they know or what they did in youth ball. We evaluate every player when they come to us in the spring of there 8th grade year. This is done initially by measurables. Then we look at work ethic, commitment and leadership during pre spring ball workouts. During this work out period we move guys around a good bit. BUT right before spring ball starts players are assigned position groups. We go over personnel once a week during actual practice periods, i.e. spring, summer, fall. Again some players move based on what they bring to the table. BUT you might notice the players wants are not part of the evaluation. Player ability and program needs are how we make decisions. When a player says, or even a parent, Johnny should  be say a LBer, I have no problem telling them what we demand in that position on Friday night and what we think a player at Johnny s point should be if he is going to be a LBer. IF you want to be something show up with the tools to do that. But until then the team is first and you need to just learn how to be a great football player where your at!!!!!

You know we lose a couple of guys here and there when we do things the way we do. Heck every one of the schools that adjoin  our district have a starting QB that originally was with us. But hear this we are looking and developing guys that will help us win games in November and December. Guys that are me guys and are not team first are not going to help us do that. So we are fine losing a third string QB who decides he won't play some other position. We also have a MLB manager who comes in every year to tell guys at our school that until you  are on actual draft boards don't just play baseball.

So you see you son is learning something valuable about  big boy football. If he goes anywhere worth a darn in football they are going to teach him how to play from scratch, like he has never played before. So see what position he played is not important. But learning to be mentally and physically tough, how to work and be committed to the team at his age is something that will actually help him in the future.

Great post, Coach. Many of us youth guys (myself included) have no interest in what the HS is running. Our guys moved on to HS this Fall and are playing for at least 5 different schools. You really have to have a love for the game to play HS ball, at least around here. The defending state champion started with over 100 freshmen. Going from starting, all world 8th grade franchise QB to 3rd string safety is a humbling experience. So we try to send our guys on with solid fundamentals, a high football IQ, a strong work ethic, selflessness and a love for the game.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17400
North Carolina
High School
October 2, 2018 8:43 am  

WE CARE EVEN LESS about what they know or what they did in youth ball.

^ This. ^

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
Platinum
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3255
October 2, 2018 8:51 am  

^ This. ^

--Dave

Many people just don't understand that.  My son went to HS last year after playing youth ball for 6 years.  We had a successful team through 8th grade, but I never once told the coach where I played the kids.  Not my place and it doesn't really matter. 

In youth ball, my son was never fast enough to play corner even though he is probably sized as one.  He was a good LB because he was positionally sound and can tackle.  He didn't really play much offense because he was small for the line and we did not need him there and his hands were awful.  Through freshmen year, they had him playing corner and WR.  Not sure why, but that is where they had him slotted. 

His friend was always a corner for our team - had a nose for the ball, decent speed and was decent in coverage.  Throughout freshmen year, they had him playing LB.

Both kids are now playing the same positions that they did in youth ball because it took the coaches a year to figure it out.  I wouldn't change a thing because I think that they all got something out of it.  🙂


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17400
North Carolina
High School
October 2, 2018 10:34 am  

Many people just don't understand that.

The starting QB at Wake Forest played Defensive Tackle and Fullback for me, as a little guy.  The (former) starting QB at Georgia Tech played Offensive Tackle and Linebacker for me.  I must have no idea what I am doing.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
Platinum
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 3255
October 2, 2018 12:09 pm  

The starting QB at Wake Forest played Defensive Tackle and Fullback for me, as a little guy.  The (former) starting QB at Georgia Tech played Offensive Tackle and Linebacker for me.  I must have no idea what I am doing.

--Dave

First thing I tell parents and first time coaches - youth ball is not the NFL.  It is not college football and it is not high school football.  Don't get hung up on where your kid plays. 


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