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Transferring schools for football  

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gumby_in_co
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October 14, 2020 10:59 am  

When asked for advice by a parent or player, I almost universally advise against transferring to another school for football, or for 8th graders, picking their school based on football. It's not that doing so is universally bad, it's that experience has shown me that switching schools/teams is a symptom of a more widespread malady. 

I read a tweet about a month ago:

"So after your child plays for 6 different AAU teams, stayed back a year in grade school, and transferred twice in HS with the same results, when is the problem no longer the coach? - Asking for a friend."

I thought it was funny and sad at the same time because I've seen a handful of kids that fit this to a T.

  • All Star tournament travel teams
  • Switching youth teams multiple times
  • Dad leaving to start his own team and trying to take the cream with him
  • Going to the football factory HS despite it being 20 minutes away
  • Private schools that are football factories

Not all of these are bad by themselves all the time, but they are traits of a bad situation and why I discourage it, when asked.

Anyway, this article is what made me think of it: https://www.denverpost.com/2020/10/14/jake-rubley-highlands-ranch-not-playing-football/

Colorado HS QB (Dad is former NFL and HC) pulls up stakes due to COVID (looked like no CO HS football at the time) to play in Iowa. Family jumps through logistical hoops to make this happen. Dad resigns as HC. Kid plays 3 games and is ruled ineligible in IA. CO goes ahead and plays football. Kid is out of luck.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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October 14, 2020 11:41 am  

"Multiple outlets reported Tuesday that highly-touted quarterback prospect Jake Garcia has been ruled ineligible following his cross-country move to play for Rush Propst and Valdosta (Ga.). The Georgia High School Association opened an investigation into the USC-bound eligibility following a Sept. 16 ESPN article in which his father shared details of separating from his wife in order to legitimize the reason for transfer."

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Prodigy
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October 14, 2020 2:12 pm  

I had to pull up the article.  I think what's kind of stupid about this is that the kid already committed as a junior to Kansas state.  As such, whatever happened as a senior shouldn't matter much, unless he's one of those kids that will commit and break that commitment and go elsewhere...which he just might be considering this particular stunt.

I've got quite a few feelings and opinions on this subject that I feel all tie together.  First, outside of obvious abuse of the child, I do my best to stay out of other peoples business and how they raise their kids and how they train their dogs.  I might not agree with what someone is doing, to say I wouldn't do what they are doing for my own kids...but it's their business, not mine.  If Jimmy-Joe wants to transfer his kid to another school or another team or spend hours driving, shuttling his kid to all star practices or whatever...that's up to him.

Continuing with the opinion...I actually think you're doing a disservice to the child in some ways when you treat them like they are the next Tom Brady, Lebron, Bo Jackson or whatever.  I once coached a young man whose mom and grandfather genuinely believed the kid was a gifted athlete...I didn't see it at all.  I specifically recall the grandfather being upset with me and saying "we'll see how this turns out in high school when it comes to athletics and scholarships."  or something to that effect.
The last I had heard, this young man didn't dominate any high school sports.  In contrast, the young man who I felt was extremely gifted...his mom never talked about him being anything more than an 11 year old boy who was great at basketball and also pretty good at football.

I remember reading in "Chasing Perfection" about how Coach Lad' said he valued every player on his roster equally.  He was just as committed to the 50th best player as he was to the 1st best player.  Other things that I read got me thinking about how the 1st best player should be doing everything he can to remain the 1st best...while the 2nd best player should be doing everything he can to become 1st while not being overtaken by the 3rd best player...The 50th best player should be trying to become 49, 48 and so on....right?  that's life, that's learning, that's improving, setting goals, putting in hard work etc.

How wrong would it be to tell a 10 year old kid...look, you're a valuable member of this team, out of the 49 other kids on this field, you're not better than any of them.
But with hard work, dedication, a can do attitude...you can become THE BEST PLAYER ON THE TEAM!!!  It would be a lie.  It would be unrealistic...and the kid might believe you.  How wrong would it be to tell that same kid, yeah you're #50 right now but if you really work hard, you might be #39 by the end of the season.  That's a far more realistic goal.

If we further dissect this:  say you lie to the kid and tell him he can go from #50 to #1...what's going to happen?  Maybe he busts his tail and by the end of the season he's #39.  He sees it, he knows it...and he's either going to see his failure to rise to #1 as his own shortcoming, he might get discouraged because he really did put in 100% effort.  Maybe he keeps putting in effort year after year and...what are the real odds of him rising to become #1 on that team?  Pretty slim.  Eventually he's going to come to the realization that you lied to him.  He's going to reach the conclusion inevitably, that no amount of hard work, dedication and perseverance will ever allow him to become the best.

All we can ever do is become OUR BEST SELVES.  When we realize that being our best selves is what everything is all about...things make more sense.

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


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terrypjohnson
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October 14, 2020 2:26 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp

"Multiple outlets reported Tuesday that highly-touted quarterback prospect Jake Garcia has been ruled ineligible following his cross-country move to play for Rush Propst and Valdosta (Ga.). The Georgia High School Association opened an investigation into the USC-bound eligibility following a Sept. 16 ESPN article in which his father shared details of separating from his wife in order to legitimize the reason for transfer."

I'm probably in the minority on this, but I think the GHSA leaves this alone if it was anyone other than Coach Propst. The minute the ESPN article appeared, high school fans down here in South Georgia started rattling off conspiracy theories. If he'd gone to Lowndes or Colquitt, no one would have thought twice about it.

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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Coyote
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October 15, 2020 9:02 am  

In the FWIW dept…

Back in the 90’s, during a wrestling tournament seeding meeting, (this was really early in the season) a team with a long history of success constantly had kids up for seed, who had wrestled for other programs the yr, or 2 yrs before.  It got to where one of the other coaches asked that team’s coach if he had anyone on his team from his own town. 

To some degree, it’s become more about being ‘stars’ than ‘teams’.   Teams, churches, businesses, clubs; organizations of all sorts, have become platforms from which to launch individual success.  The value of the team/ church / association lay in its role to support and help accentuate the individual’s success.  If the organization is failing to advance the individual’s career, then it is deemed a failure and the individual moves on to another group that can provide the platform needed for personal success.

Sadly, “Be true to your school” is pretty much just an moldy, oldie song from a bygone era.    

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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gumby_in_co
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October 15, 2020 11:42 am  
Posted by: @coyote

To some degree, it’s become more about being ‘stars’ than ‘teams’.   Teams, churches, businesses, clubs; organizations of all sorts, have become platforms from which to launch individual success.  The value of the team/ church / association lay in its role to support and help accentuate the individual’s success.  If the organization is failing to advance the individual’s career, then it is deemed a failure and the individual moves on to another group that can provide the platform needed for personal success.

Bingo. That is precisely the malady or condition that I was trying to describe. HS kids jumping from school to school is where it pretty much ends for me. What goes on in the NCAA is whatever it is. That's a business to me.

As you pointed it out, it all starts with the "what can your TEAM do for my son?" mentality. Allowed to fester, this provides the petri dish for the adults who ruin youth sports.

  • The player agent mom or dad who at best acts as a sideline cancer and at worst tears down an entire team or club looking out for their kid.
  • The unscrupulous coach who will gladly acquiesce to this to get a big shiny.
  • The youth sports hustler who tries to make a buck off of this mentality.

Again, not everything is absolute.

  • Parents should look out for their own kids. Nothing wrong with that until you lose sight of what is "best for your kid".
  • Coaches can and should accept new players, as long as no rules are being broken.
  • Some people provide a valuable service for an appropriate price. Nothing wrong with that.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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October 15, 2020 11:10 pm  

You can’t lump the “COVID” transfers into the same category as the malcontents. My oldest son is a senior this year and he’s not getting to play due to COVID. That’s pretty sad but his junior film got him enough attention that he has options and will get some money to play college football.

His little brother is a junior and arguably a better player. He’s not getting that junior film he needs. Not only does that suck ass for him but it also sucks for me...the guy who will be paying the college bill. We had a chance to transfer. They are playing 15 minutes from us. We opted to stay put and hope for the best... that feels like a bad decision at this point. 

 

 


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gumby_in_co
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October 15, 2020 11:38 pm  
Posted by: @seabass

You can’t lump the “COVID” transfers into the same category as the malcontents. My oldest son is a senior this year and he’s not getting to play due to COVID. That’s pretty sad but his junior film got him enough attention that he has options and will get some money to play college football.

His little brother is a junior and arguably a better player. He’s not getting that junior film he needs. Not only does that suck ass for him but it also sucks for me...the guy who will be paying the college bill. We had a chance to transfer. They are playing 15 minutes from us. We opted to stay put and hope for the best... that feels like a bad decision at this point. 

 

 

Yeah, not everything is absolute, but if your only choice was to uproot your career and send your son to play 2 states over, would you have regretted that?

Also, the only thing that chapped me about this particular case is that the dad was HC of a major varsity program and quit. It was what I viewed to be an extreme measure that got me thinking about the parents who become player agents (especially at the youth level) and some of the coaches and "hustlers" who take advantage of them.

This post was modified 6 days ago by gumby_in_co

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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October 19, 2020 1:44 pm  

@gumby_in_co

 

My only regret is that we DIDN'T move our kid's. We live 15 miles form a bordering state that is playing. It would have been a hassle but it was feasible. You only get 1 HS experience...you have the rest of your life to be a grownup.

 


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gumby_in_co
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October 19, 2020 2:05 pm  
Posted by: @seabass

@gumby_in_co

 

My only regret is that we DIDN'T move our kid's. We live 15 miles form a bordering state that is playing. It would have been a hassle but it was feasible. You only get 1 HS experience...you have the rest of your life to be a grownup.

 

You're in IL, right?

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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October 19, 2020 5:41 pm  

@gumby_in_co

 

I'm in Washington state but we are only a few miles from North Idaho.

 


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gumby_in_co
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October 19, 2020 8:44 pm  

@seabass

I see. I didn't know WA wasn't playing. Going back to your original point. Correct. Can't lump Covid refugees in with team jumpers. 

For this kid, the nearest option would have been Cheyenne, WY, about 2 hours away. Not exactly a hotbed of D1 scouting. His dad is an IA native and very well could have family that the boy could have stayed with. So unfair to tag him as a malcontent. Understand where I'm coming from, though. My son was a hockey player. I know literally dozens of kids who were not as good as my son, but whose parents sent them across the country to chase a hockey dream. Some of those families could afford $40k per year in private school tuition in Canada, Minnesota, Michigan or the East coast, plus room, board, travel, another $20k in hockey expenses . . .

But I know more than a few families who made very poor financial decisions to make stuff like this happen. As someone pointed out using a wrestling example, these folks moved their son from club to club and if the kid failed to show improvement commensurate with the money spent, it was a failure on the club's part. As an age level director, part of my job was to retain players from year to year. Many kids would make the AA team for the first time ever, then the very next season when I called to see if they were coming back, I go the "We're looking for the best 'situation' for Jimmy." 

Then, there are the hustlers. Rule of thumb is that you should't pay more than $20 per hour of ice for a camp or clinic. If you fill your clinic, that pays for the ice, plus puts a few bucks in each coach's pocket for gas and lunch. Throw the word "elite", "pro", "AAA", "preparatory" or other certain buzzwords and guys are charging $450 for 3 hours of skating. The guys running those camps/clinics are often HCs of elite teams. It's not stated, but certainly implied that attendance at these camps can influence who makes those teams. Or, the guy we hire to run our "dry land" training. Attendance to his training sessions are encouraged and the cost is covered by the season fee. Then, he uses the access to kids and parents to tell them if they really want to see results, they should come to his "elite" clinic or better yet, pay for private sessions where he charges $50 per hour to have them do the same drills/exercises he teaches in our free sessions. Or the fact that every single hockey coach I've met at the 14U and older level calls himself a "scout" for Junior teams. Nothing wrong with that until he tries to get a family to hire him as a "family advisor" for around $5k. He then tells the parents that he knows a coach who is interested in their boy and that he can get their son a tryout . . . as long as he is their "family advisor". There are 2 differences between an agent and a "family advisor". 1 gets paid on a 100% contingency and is illegal under NCAA rules. The other gets paid upfront whether or not he gets any results and is 100% legal under NCAA rules. Another infamous hustler is the guy who ran what Mahonz calls the "Corporate Team". He single handedly crapped on 2 major youth football leagues and nearly destroyed a club in the interest of building his brand.

As far as football, there is a rule in CO that no coach, administrator or other school employee can try to influence a student to transfer because of athletics or athletic facilities. I stood 2 feet away from a local powerhouse coach doing exactly that with an 8th grade player of mine. That Fall, over 100 kids showed up for their freshman team. Now, I'm hearing that there was an aggressive recruiting effort going on. I think 3/4 of our (Mahonz and mine) guys ended up going to this school. That's the kind of stuff I don't care for.

Again, these things by themselves aren't always bad, but they get worse in aggregate and the world of the hustler doesn't exist without that environment.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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October 19, 2020 9:51 pm  

I hear you and agree with all of that. Parents make lots of delusional decisions and there are plenty of hustlers there to take that money.


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