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Hands Catching - How young is too young?  

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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4147
December 18, 2017 5:29 am  

Okay, let's forget about lining up in the gaps and just think about attacking the gaps.

--Dave

The teams that have the most success with us do exactly that. However, we haven't had an opponent who can hurt us consistently with DLMs alone. So when the LBs start coming to compliment the DLMs, we move them away with Empty. Then, there's always the "Mojo" factor (you're welcome, Michael). Who still wants to kick someone's butt in the 4th quarter? It seems that very few of our opponents do.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 5:32 am  

I'm still dreading the team who takes your approach and refuses to play our little game. I personally think it's a bad idea defensively to abandon leverage, but until we see it on grass we can only speculate.

Lar, always have something prepared.  It's a bad idea to know there's a scheme out there that could give you trouble, and you only hope (instead of prepare) that you don't have to face it.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 5:36 am  

A big part of what we do is being able to move quickly to either side and staggering seems to limit us.

Staggering will limit you if you have to move both ways.  If that's the case, you are better suited for an even stance.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Posts: 4147
December 18, 2017 5:37 am  

Lar, always have something prepared.  It's a bad idea to know there's a scheme out there that could give you trouble, and you only hope (instead of prepare) that you don't have to face it.

--Dave

That's why we lean so heavily on Mahonz. He's seen it all and always knows what to do with the $h!t hits the fan.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 5:43 am  

Remember that mega splits were "forced" on me. I eventually developed a taste for them and now I'm their biggest advocate. The most important lesson is to abandon everything you "know" about o-line play, starting with "DLMs in the backfield is a bad thing". I've been coaching on the offensive side of mega splits for 4 seasons, 2 on the o-line and there is still a "pucker factor" because I never know how things are going to work out from play to play, series to series and game to game. I just hope I can adjust. With a handful of exceptions, that's been the case.

When opponents scheme poorly against you, your choices can be a dangerous thing because if what you do works, it can be easily confused with "a good idea."  There's a difference between "an idea that works" and "a good idea."  Often in youth ball, we could do things that worked and get away with it.  An example would be when we used to kick-off the ball OOB.  Our opponent would take the ball on the 35 every time (which is not good field position in youth ball) instead of taking the penalty, moving us back and making us kick it again.  I remember hearing a parent yelling at us that what we were doing "wasn't fair," when all their team had to do was accept the penalty and make us re-kick.  Eventually, we're going to have to put the ball in play.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 5:45 am  

Lar, I think the biggest reason you're able to get away with this is the advantage you have in a 2-point stance and your opponent's D-Line being in a 3 or 4.  Despite that you are shallow to the line, you should have a quickness advantage every time.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 5:49 am  

That's why we lean so heavily on Mahonz. He's seen it all and always knows what to do with the $h!t hits the fan.

Which is why I'm not saying that we would/could beat you.  I just think our scheme would be more challenging.  I see your opponent's D-Line reacting to your offensive line.  That's a mistake.  We always coached our players against an "invisible" offense.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 5:50 am  

Who still wants to kick someone's butt in the 4th quarter?

That would be us.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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December 18, 2017 6:17 am  

That would be us.

--Dave

And us as well.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Posts: 4147
December 18, 2017 6:30 am  

There's a difference between "an idea that works" and "a good idea." 

Semantics. Time will tell if this is a good idea or not. I've seen guys struggle with it, but since I wasn't coaching it at the time, I didn't pay attention as to why it wasn't working.

The thing is, Dave, EVERYTHING you are saying is correct.  95% of it is fixable with hard work and patience.  Few coaches can stand behind the offense and watch 6 consecutive TFLs by a badass DLM in practice and NOT scrap the scheme. It's like that TE shift you were struggling with in pre-season. You have to be equal parts creative and stubborn. Another reason why I don't enthusiastically recommend this to others.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
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Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 6:50 am  

It's like that TE shift you were struggling with in pre-season. You have to be equal parts creative and stubborn.

Yes, we stayed with that because we knew it would work.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22974
December 18, 2017 7:58 am  

I can't tell you which team had more talent.  I can tell that (based on the 4? clips I saw) your team is coached better than theirs is.

--Dave

Interesting opponent. We have played them the last 3 years and they put together a nice run this past season.

Prior they couldn't play a lick of Defense but that changed this season. Must have found themselves a DC. If they had more team speed they probably make it the the Championship.

Their Offense is crazy weird but effective. Always has been.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Posts: 22974
December 18, 2017 7:59 am  

The taller you stand, the closer to the LOS you'll have to be.  As you said, you have to get your "helmets even with the Center's hip."  In an even-footed stance (no stagger), it's difficult to get much depth off the LOS because your feet are under you.  But keep in mind that in a 2-point stance, you can still get a deep knee-bend.  We recessed our inside foot when we used it.  A deep knee-bend coupled with a stagger will allow you to get your head forward without being off-balance and falling forward. 

As much as I like the 2-point stance for youth (and the Double Wing), a 3-point stance allows us to be we deep off the LOS.  The down (inside) hand of our Guard is touching the heel of the Center.  This depth gives them more time (for everything) after the ball has been snapped and makes it far easier for their helmet to be even with the Center's hip, while the rest of their body is deep off the LOS.

--Dave

Does staggering effect your pulling?

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
December 18, 2017 8:06 am  

Does staggering effect your pulling?

In a 2-point stance, staggering one leg will open your hips to the staggered side.  This is very helpful in the Double Wing, where we are Wedging, pulling, or blocking down.  The inside stagger helps facilitate all that, but quicker.  In a 3-point, I don't think its impact is felt as much, as the hips certainly aren't opened like they are in a 2-point stance. 

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7614
Illinois
Other
Club Admin
December 18, 2017 8:50 am  

"Few coaches can stand behind the offense and watch 6 consecutive TFLs by a badass DLM in practice and NOT scrap the scheme." 

Lar.  As frustrating as that can be, good coaches also know that the play works.  I really hate going up against my own defensive players in practices simply because they know our plays.  Truer words when we have our subs in on Offense.  To Dave's point  "We always coached our players against an "invisible" offense."  Thats why I use garbage cans, tackling dummies, etc when we start installing our O and D. 

When I was an OC or DC I really hated it when my counterpart made it impossible to do any installation because they always had to be competitive (Win). Even if that meant defeating the purpose of "Installation".         

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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