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GP
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(@gpenn44)
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April 13, 2018 7:34 am  

At the youth level we typically use mirrored concepts in our Quick Game (eg Slant / Arrow on both sides) to keep things simple.

At the HS level, most of the better coaches I speak with marry concepts (eg Mazzone guys marry Snag or Stick Concepts to 3 WR side with Double Slants to 2 WR side).

Curious what your experiences have been with this and for guys who marry concepts, which ones you've had the most success with.

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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April 13, 2018 7:57 am  

Ill start by saying anything beyond telling a qb where to tho is hardest below age 14 from experiance.

At 14/15 yr... i married a june jones concept to @mahonz up down

Essentially there was a "call side" or concept was ran to one side...usually boundary side and the up/down ran field side.

Example call would be : smash 2 down...our boundary receivers we strictly that and our field receivers were stricly that.  There was some cross over but not much.

This enabled us to use concepts we like that didnt fit necessarily in the up/down tree out confusion.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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April 13, 2018 8:03 am  

Ill start by saying anything beyond telling a qb where to tho is hardest below age 14 from experiance.

At 14/15 yr... i married a june jones concept to @mahonz up down

Essentially there was a "call side" or concept was ran to one side...usually boundary side and the up/down ran field side.

Example call would be : smash 2 down...our boundary receivers we strictly that and our field receivers were stricly that.  There was some cross over but not much.

This enabled us to use concepts we like that didnt fit necessarily in the up/down tree out confusion.

I like it.....essentially what we do now. Up Down is really simple as an entry level 5 wide but eventually its need a shot of Zach.  😉

Only difference is we dont play the field boundary game...all match ups per how many receivers we have developed which is rarely if ever all 5.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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April 13, 2018 8:17 am  

I like it.....essentially what we do now. Up Down is really simple as an entry level 5 wide but eventually its need a shot of Zach.  😉

Only difference is we dont play the field boundary game...all match ups per how many receivers we have developed which is rarely if ever all 5.

Haha i like drawing routes in the dirt like anyone else...  wanted concepts we used for ever "mini" was direct slant...no step down field and used both receivers to clear defenders... wheel is another favorite...along with many seam combos.

If i had more time i would

Keep up down receiver seperare from call receivers

Add screen game and 4wr concepts

Add more 3x1 packages to iso my best receiver

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
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April 13, 2018 8:54 am  

Ill start by saying anything beyond telling a qb where to tho is hardest below age 14 from experiance.

We're 14U and utilize Slack's R4 system - has worked very well - not a believer in just telling a QB where to throw whether we're running mirrored or varying concepts.

That said I haven't coached it younger than 13 so it'd be tough for me to say what works on grass for say 10U. I could tell you what doesn't work at the younger ages from watching the other coaches in our program  :-X

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
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April 13, 2018 9:55 am  

At the youth level we typically use mirrored concepts in our Quick Game (eg Slant / Arrow on both sides) to keep things simple.

At the HS level, most of the better coaches I speak with marry concepts (eg Mazzone guys marry Snag or Stick Concepts to 3 WR side with Double Slants to 2 WR side).

Curious what your experiences have been with this and for guys who marry concepts, which ones you've had the most success with.

It's my preference to have something on each side that beats 1 high and 2 high defenses.  Sometimes the same play (like Flood) or a full-field concept can work against everything and you're good, but other times you need to be careful.

The other thing to remember is the geometry of the field.  Remember that 75% of a game is on a hash, which you have to take into account.  In general, out breaking routes work better on the boundary while in-breaking routes work better to the field where there's more room to work.

If you want to use complimentary concepts for quick game, a good idea is something like fade/out to one side (2 high beater) and stick on the other (single high beater)--both can work against man.  I also like slant/bubble to one side (1 high beater) with double slants and an arrow to the other (2 high beater).  Another good one is tunnel screen to the boundary and bubble screen to the field.

For dropbacks, it gets murkier.  As I said above, it works for 2 and 3 man half-field combos, but not full-field concepts, like Mesh.  However, you can get into and run something like Levels to the field (Cover 2 Beater) with a Curl/Flat to the other boundary (Cover 3 beater).  You can also make the backside of Trips into some type of Choice concept while running any 3 receiver concept to the Trips.  June Jones famously loved making Levels the backside of Choice, while some HS run and shoot teams always run a Switch concept on the backside of their 2X2 stuff.

For Sprint Out, it's simpler to just use an automatic on the backside, rather than a mirrored route.  There's no way any QB, even in the NFL, is going to hit the corner route on Smash when sprinting to to the opposite side of the field, but if you make your automatic routes on sprint out a Post by #1 and then a Drag by #2... all of a sudden the QB gets routes that are viable options.


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GP
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(@gpenn44)
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April 13, 2018 10:30 am  

Great post, Coach!

Yes full-field concepts are obviously a whole different story and as for rollouts & Naked, that is our approach for backside routes (ie designed to get our backside WRs in the QB's line of vision). My post was more geared toward Quick Game & 1/2 field drop back concepts.

What we find is that at the youth level, teams rarely disguise coverage and if they do, are typically very poor at it. When you watch big school HS teams play, it's a very different story around that.

So against a Zone team that likes to move it's safeties, utlilizing a Cov 2 beater on one side and a Cov 3 beater on the other makes sense and becomes a fairly easy read for the QB as the shell changes.

Against teams that disguise within the same shell (Man 2 vs Cov 2 vs Cov 4), many teams utilize Zone beaters like Snag or Stick (which work well against multiple Zone coverages) to the Trips side and a Choice Route (eg Capped = Hitch, Uncapped = Fade) to the X.

Similarly from Empty I have seen teams use a lot of Stick & Snag Concepts to the 3 WR side with Double Slants on the 2 WR side which allows the QB to account for an extra man in the box.

Options almost become endless - thanks for sharing what has worked for you, Coach!

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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GP
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(@gpenn44)
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April 13, 2018 12:01 pm  

while some HS run and shoot teams always run a Switch concept on the backside of their 2X2 stuff.

There is a lot you can do with this alone. For example the Post = a) Split Safeties vs Cov 2 / Cov 4 b) Skinny vs Cov 3 c) Dig vs Man

The Wheel can have a comeback element when capped (Cov 3 / Cov 4)

Would never even consider using option routes at Youth and have heard mixed things from coaches on running them at the HS level. College & beyond it becomes essential.

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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April 13, 2018 12:18 pm  

June runs 5 basics concepts backside...he also only runs 1 shoot player while the partner runs route based on one.of 5 cover shells. 1 off, 1 on, 2, 2 off, 4 across

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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April 13, 2018 1:47 pm  

LOL....what ever happened to throw the ball to the open guy.

You guys are too much.  😛

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
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April 13, 2018 2:17 pm  

LOL....what ever happened to throw the ball to the open guy.

You guys are too much.  😛

R4 = throw the ball to the open guy  8)

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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April 13, 2018 2:30 pm  

R4 = throw the ball to the open guy  8)

Yah I sat thru Slacks R4 presentation after his C4 presentation.

Interesting speaker. I must say I could throw a football much better.

I like my R3 stuff better.

Read my lips and throw it to the guy I tell you too.

Release the ball in two second

Run like hell when Im wrong.

Works for me.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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somecoach
(@coach-tony)
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April 13, 2018 8:57 pm  

Yah I sat thru Slacks R4 presentation after his C4 presentation.

Interesting speaker. I must say I could throw a football much better.

I like my R3 stuff better.

Read my lips and throw it to the guy I tell you too.

Release the ball in two second

Run like hell when Im wrong.

Works for me.

At the youth level when you predominately see man or watered down cover 3... I don't see why you wouldn't run it that way lol

tbh the only time i need a qb to go through a progression is vs zone. (its nice vs man, but really comes down to who do we trust to beat his matchup)


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GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
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April 14, 2018 3:29 am  

At the youth level when you predominately see man or watered down cover 3... I don't see why you wouldn't run it that way lol

tbh the only time i need a qb to go through a progression is vs zone. (its nice vs man, but really comes down to who do we trust to beat his matchup)

That is what you see when you face crappy to mediocre youth teams which is "predominantly" what you see. But we don't run R4 so we can beat the teams that we're usually subbing heavily by early 2nd Q against, though it certainly works against them as well.

The top teams in our league all mix up their coverages / shells, esp against us bc we throw the most. As I noted, they're not disguised very well but they have athletes at DB / LB, scout and are pretty sound / well coached.

Can't opine on younger ages but at 14U, R4 works if you coach it. Similar to Read Game which many think is silly to run in youth ball as well.

With the type of 13/14 year old you'd usually put at QB in this O, if you empower them to make decisions and provide a simple process for them to do so, they usually eat it up. And that makes your running (Read) and passing (R4) game MUCH more dynamic.

We don't run RPOs but not bc I don't think they could, time limitations. So instead we run those as PAPs. Less dynamic but usually gets the job done at our level.

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
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April 14, 2018 6:23 am  

G

At the HS level we do a lot of marrying concepts. Most times it involves Stick to one side & Man beaters to the other. There are many different ways to get there. Your QB last season wasn't ready to do it, season before last your QB could have. IMHO it is all about who is your QB.

The other issue is how much practice time you have. I'm sure it's something you could build on, just not sure it would be worth the time investment.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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