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Personnel Groupings in a Zone Scheme  

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RPOZone
(@rpozone)
Copper
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 9
October 22, 2018 4:07 pm  

How important do you think it is to mix up personnel groupings in the Gibbs Zone Scheme? I've been watching film and it appears there are more negatives, and less explosive plays in 21, 12, and 22 personnel. I'm sure that can be attributed to spacing out the defense, less 8 man boxes, etc.

Do you think if you based this run game primarily out of 11 personnel (85% or more) that it would still be as effective? Or is it imperative to run it out of many different personnel groupings because the only plays in the playbook are Wide and Tight Zone?

Thanks


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7598
Illinois
Other
Club Admin
October 22, 2018 5:30 pm  

Coach:

At my level I have but 1 or 2 kids that make a difference in a game. The supporting cast is key.  I suggest that Formation is as important as personnel.  Can I put him In the slot, X or Y?  Can I motion him across the formation in Jet or line him up as Tail Back and run toss or counter.  Personnel is good, mixing personnel within formations to take advantage or force the defense to adjust is king. 

jmho

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
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Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 847
October 23, 2018 4:10 am  

How important do you think it is to mix up personnel groupings in the Gibbs Zone Scheme? I've been watching film and it appears there are more negatives, and less explosive plays in 21, 12, and 22 personnel. I'm sure that can be attributed to spacing out the defense, less 8 man boxes, etc.

Do you think if you based this run game primarily out of 11 personnel (85% or more) that it would still be as effective? Or is it imperative to run it out of many different personnel groupings because the only plays in the playbook are Wide and Tight Zone?

Thanks

You have to look at *why* you'd want to use multiple personnel groupings and what they'd give you.  For the NFL and colleges, it's all about matchups and tags (in combination with tons of formations) they can use to change how the defense must defend them.

Even then, a lot of those personnel groupings just recycle the same group.  The go-to personnel grouping for most spread offenses now is either 20 or 11 personnel, depending on whether you consider your TE a "TE" or an "H-Back."  You can do a lot with that.

Honestly, for most HS and youth teams, using a ton of different personnel groupings is redundant because you're lucky to get 11 good players on the field at once.  If the 12th, 13th, or 14th man was good enough to need a special package to get him on the field, or even good enough to be a threat, he'd probably already be starting somewhere else.

Personally, I like to keep the same group on the field in whatever offense I'm using but move them around to get different formations.  The only "personnel groupings" I would even consider using are a "5 minute offense" package that's more about getting some bigger bodies out there to block and grind it out, then maybe a "2 minute" offense package that subs out some of those bigger blockers for a little more speed.

Getting 8 man boxes isn't necessarily bad, especially when you want to throw the ball.  It can really help to use things like 20 or 21 personnel Twins sets with an offset FB to release into the flat and force the defense to pack the box or simplify the coverages they're going to play you.  You can also get a lot of different looks and leverages just by moving around 1 or 2 players in 21 personnel, especially if you have a FB who can also line up as a TE, a RB you can move out on obvious passing downs, or a TE you can split out wide.

Ask yourself: "why would I need this?"  If you can't answer that question, you probably don't.


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9356
Coach
October 23, 2018 4:57 am  

12 is base - h,y,z,x, rb

From there i have 2 other packages

13 - 3 te or in my case and extra tackle
11 - 3 wr

All base plays can be ran bc we have our H still on the field for all groupings, he never comes off.  You can run every ECO play with minimal teaching as long as the H is present.

From there i have heavy groups of 2 extra linemen so no wr, all lineman, h,y, and rb.  Stanford called this "balco" 

As far as game flow, i was in a lot of base personnel probably 80%, the other packages were our way of getting kids in and regardless of talent remain productive.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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chucknduck
(@chucknduck)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 383
February 10, 2020 6:22 pm  

This is something that I have thought about quite a bit about this off season.  Not so much as to confuse the defense but to get all the players on my roster involved.  I really like to load up the defense with the best players I have.  So that means I have to make an offense out of what players are left over.  I try to platoon as much as possible.  I do have a spread package where I put the four best wrs in the game but will use it very little unless it is necessary.  So really it will depend on what type of players I have.  It could be 11 personnel if I have three guys in that can't block, if I have a lot of lineman types then I'm gonna use them and use 12 or 13 personnel.  Will I use all of those personnel packages within a given game?  No, I'll have a 10 package and then possibly only one other.  I used to hope that I would get a good qb and some good wrs so I could air it out... but now I really don't care.  I'm gonna have fun whether I'm in 10 personnel or 13 personnel.  I just let the player types/talent dictate what I do now.  My main concern is finding a role for the less talented guys and then go from there.


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
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Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 7637
Florida
February 11, 2020 7:45 am  

HS level it's all about using personnel groupings & gaining a conflict. It also gives defenses something to worry about all week. Depending on Coverage, Front, & Personnel we will vary what groups we like. Against teams that play a lot of man we will run a lot of motion just to force the defense into a mismatch.

Youth Level it really depends on what you have. At Mint Hill we were mostly 11 & 12, using the same personnel we would play 10. The only place we would really use a different grouping was short yardage & goal line. Changing personnel has to be seamless, & needs to be practiced. I really think in the Youth game start simple & then build to using groupings is the best route.

 

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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chucknduck
(@chucknduck)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 383
February 11, 2020 12:44 pm  

Hey Joe, how'd it go at that new school this past season?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17082
North Carolina
High School
February 11, 2020 3:36 pm  
Posted by: @chucknduck

Hey Joe, how'd it go at that new school this past season?

(Dave ducks...)

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7598
Illinois
Other
Club Admin
February 11, 2020 5:28 pm  

Hides Behind Dave!~

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 7637
Florida
February 12, 2020 5:10 pm  

@chucknduck

I posted all about it. Basically we were terrible.

 

Joe

 

 

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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