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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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We suspected that our week 2 opponent played an illegal player. In Spring, an older player may play down if he's under a certain weight. Sort of like older-lighters in PW. For our 8th grade division, a HS freshman can play if he's 165 or under. The suspected illegal player looked MUCH bigger than that and really dominated the game. Tonight, I found a MaxPreps site that listed him at 185lbs last Fall. I turned this over to the league, but I doubt anything will be done.

The younger divisions also have a patch rule. Before our last game, I overheard two field monitors discussing the 6th grade game before ours. One of them said, "The patch rule is really about the honor system. You have to trust guys to do the right thing."  If you're not going to enforce a rule, eliminate it. Otherwise you create a situation where cheaters are rewarded and honest teams are punished.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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MHcoach
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I can never understand why age rules just aren't hard & fast. Older Lighter's & other such non sense really serve a small group & help no one.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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Vince148
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The league that I used to coach in had age and weight restrictions and kids were weighed by the league field commissioners before every game.


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patriotsfatboy1
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Maybe it is another thread, but I bet we could pull together some good stories about teams trying to cheat.

We had a team in the Regional Semis with a stud QB who was ineligible because he was playing for his private school's varsity team as an 8th grader.  I knew it and gave a warning to the Regional officials checking in each team.  Sure enough, the kid showed up in full gear ready to play and he was told to take off the gear and grab a clip board. It is always funny when coaches try to skirt the rules and get caught. 


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MHcoach
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My favorite cheating story involves a rather complicated plan. I was coaching in Brooklyn in the 80's, we were very successful. The league we coached in was run by a great guy, but he really made sure no one could cheat. The penalty for having an overage player was a life time ban.

An organization that could just never beat us signed a waiver for player they knew was really overage. They also knew he was using a phony birth certificate. Sending him to my team they were hoping I get him certified with the phony birth certificate so I would get a life long ban.

The week of certification I decided to check on a couple of players, only to find out he was using a phony certificate. When I questioned him he admitted the coach of the other team paid him to come to my team.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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Bob Goodman
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It'd be hard to beat MHCoach's Machiavellian story.  Mine's more in the way of "cute".

We had a rule in the Warriors requiring players to sit out the 1st half (which for scrubs might cause them to sit the whole game since there was no MPR in he 2nd half) if they weren't at the field (not necessarily in full gear) half an hour before kickoff.  One time we had a good player who was too late for that deadline.  He'd've been easy to spot had he entered and gone directly to where we were warming up.  Instead, Coach Kenny sent the team on a warmup lap on the track around the field, and the player in question merged with the pack as they came by.  He played in the 1st half.

A couple seasons later they changed the rule to require signing in with admin half an hour before game,  The following season the rule was abolished.  I guess if a participation rule is too hard to cheat at, it becomes too onerous to keep.


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MHcoach
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Bob

In the late 70's there was a Catholic Home for Boys that had a few teams. Instead of birth certificates they would use Baptism Certificates to certify. That is until they got caught playing 2 19 y/o's at 14's. The monsignor's defense was they were orphans. At 19 they shouldn't have even been at the home.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Topic starter  

My favorite cheating story involves a rather complicated plan. I was coaching in Brooklyn in the 80's, we were very successful. The league we coached in was run by a great guy, but he really made sure no one could cheat. The penalty for having an overage player was a life time ban.

An organization that could just never beat us signed a waiver for player they knew was really overage. They also knew he was using a phony birth certificate. Sending him to my team they were hoping I get him certified with the phony birth certificate so I would get a life long ban.

The week of certification I decided to check on a couple of players, only to find out he was using a phony certificate. When I questioned him he admitted the coach of the other team paid him to come to my team.

Joe

Yes, that is a very complicated plan and would be really funny if it wasn't so sad. The guys around here tend to go the "brute force" route. They simply ignore rules and often lawyer up when they are punished. The kid in question once played for an infamous cheater who was kicked out of both large leagues in the Denver area. He sued citing racism. His case was thrown out, but he recently re-filed. He's a white guy, BTW.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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MHcoach
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L

It doesn't surprise me. Guys like that will use any means that they can. In Charlotte there was a guy who bounced from 6 different leagues always trying to stay one step ahead. It was clear he was cheating but almost impossible to catch him. The thing was he never really won anything.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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davecisar
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Been pretty fortunate
Omaha league had 3 teams getting caught cheating
That's been it- as far as I know

WHAT BLOWS ME AWAY:
The kids and parents of these cheating teams KNOW when a kid is too old- everyone talks
It only takes ONE disgruntled or honest parent to blow the whistle on a cheater
HOW CAN YOU HAVE A CONSPIRACY OF what 75 parents, coaches and players- where no one tells????
That is INCREDIBLE to have that many dishonest people in one little nook of the world

On a different note
One year we had one of OUR players try and get on the team with a bogus birth certificate
He wanted to play- was too old and crudely forged his own cert- we caught it
We made him a coach

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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Bob Goodman
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On a different note
One year we had one of OUR players try and get on the team with a bogus birth certificate
He wanted to play- was too old and crudely forged his own cert- we caught it
We made him a coach

Great punch line.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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It is sad and bewildering, Dave. I guess you start by having a league that ignores its own rules (see patch discussion above). We were beaten a few seasons ago by a team who rolled out a RB/Receiver who was obviously too big to not wear a patch. We confronted them after the game in the presence of the league official. Coach: "Yeah, he's a patch player, but it's okay because we haven't gotten our helmet stickers yet." League official accepted that explanation and the win was allowed to stand. Last season, a new team split from our bitter rivals, the Colts. Colts coach pointed out a player who was too big to play down (double patcher). The league let that go because the team was so bad.

So the league sets a standard that some rules are more like "suggestions".

I read the league's protest procedure. Only illegal players or patch violations are subject to protest. Protest must be filed at half time. Protesting coach writes a check for $100. If the protest is found to be valid, protesting coach gets $50 back. The other $50 goes to the "scholarship fund". I have been paying for players registrations for 3 seasons now and have NEVER heard of their scholarship fund. If the protest is not found to be valid, coach forfeits his $100.

You bring up an excellent point as well. I often feel very alone when I go on these campaigns to expose cheaters. Around here, I get the sense that many just want me to let things go. It's not limited to football, either.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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bignose
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In 2008 we had our starting. varsity  QB, a 135 lb. 5'-6" 16 year old junior, show up just as pregame warm-ups were concluding for a 7 p.m. Friday night game.
His excuse at the time, was that he was getting laid, and lost track of time!

It turned out that his father was the HC of an under 14 team in a nearby Metropolitan area, one that was notorious for the gambling involved with the youth games, and he played as a ringer for his Dad's team, and got caught in traffic coming to our game.

Oh yeah, he ran for about 150 yards in our game.

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


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davecisar
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It is sad and bewildering, Dave. I guess you start by having a league that ignores its own rules (see patch discussion above). We were beaten a few seasons ago by a team who rolled out a RB/Receiver who was obviously too big to not wear a patch. We confronted them after the game in the presence of the league official. Coach: "Yeah, he's a patch player, but it's okay because we haven't gotten our helmet stickers yet." League official accepted that explanation and the win was allowed to stand. Last season, a new team split from our bitter rivals, the Colts. Colts coach pointed out a player who was too big to play down (double patcher). The league let that go because the team was so bad.

So the league sets a standard that some rules are more like "suggestions".

I read the league's protest procedure. Only illegal players or patch violations are subject to protest. Protest must be filed at half time. Protesting coach writes a check for $100. If the protest is found to be valid, protesting coach gets $50 back. The other $50 goes to the "scholarship fund". I have been paying for players registrations for 3 seasons now and have NEVER heard of their scholarship fund. If the protest is not found to be valid, coach forfeits his $100.

You bring up an excellent point as well. I often feel very alone when I go on these campaigns to expose cheaters. Around here, I get the sense that many just want me to let things go. It's not limited to football, either.

At the end of the day people know who is on the team, where they come from and how old they are

To have in upwards of 75 people all IN ON THE CHEATING- I dont get it at all
And for a coach to cheat to begin with- let alone risk his reputation on 75 people being happy and dishonest enough to keep his secrets- is insane

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
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Cheating in youth football serves to destroy the very thing we love. I never understood the mindset. After all if you have to cheat to win what have you really won.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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