Notifications
Clear all

Pay to play

Page 1 / 2

Threepwood
(@wettstein)
Bronze
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 367
Topic starter  

Do any of you have rules restricting or allowing payment to players and/or their parents to play?  If so, please share with us the wording.  Also interested in hearing opinions about paying kids to play.  Examples:

Paying kids for good hits/sacks/interceptions/tds, etc,
Reducing or eliminating fees to play
Offering "scholarships".
Paying for special items (dinners, lunches, uniforms, etc.)
Discounts (car rentals, movie discounts, etc.)

I know college and high rules exist, what about rec?


Quote
bignose
(@bignose)
Silver
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 917
 

I believe that this is most likely extremely illegal under most organized rules.
The exception might be waiving of fees due to financial need.

Paying kids for big hits, touchdowns, or making plays is extremely unethical, they don't even allow the Pros to do that anymore.
We have had a situation in a nearby metropolitan area where gamblers have done just what you said.
Kids who are "stars" paid via merchandise, shoes, clothing, tickets, and their parents benefited from these endeavors as well.

Kinda like what has happened at several large Universities where the "booster club" arranged for gifts, cars, etc. for their parents.

Or see what happened to Bellevue Washington after the "booster club" run by the HC ended up getting kids into a feeder Alternative School where they were guaranteed good grades, arranged housing, and ended up pocketing loads of raised money (ostensibly paid for "off season activities"- like $600,000 over a ten year period).
Worked great until somebody blew the whistle and everyone from the School Superintendent on down got held accountable, because the Administration tried to obfuscate the investigation.

They ended up with the Sports equivalent of the "Death Penalty."

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


ReplyQuote
Prodigy
(@prodigy)
Platinum
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2520
 

In both AYF and Pop Warner you cannot award/reward an individual player for on-field performance.  That means you cannot put a sticker on their helmet for a sack, tackle, touchdown or pancake...nor can you give them $100 or a new pair of shoes or a t-shirt.

I've heard of "Nestle Crunch Bars" being handed out in recognition of big hits but I think it's safe to assume that too is against the rules. 

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23169
 

In both AYF and Pop Warner you cannot award/reward an individual player for on-field performance.  That means you cannot put a sticker on their helmet for a sack, tackle, touchdown or pancake...nor can you give them $100 or a new pair of shoes or a t-shirt.

I've heard of "Nestle Crunch Bars" being handed out in recognition of big hits but I think it's safe to assume that too is against the rules.

Dang...we've been doing Crunch Bars since the day Potter mentioned it....its been years.

I pay for registrations, give rides, buy breakfast and dinner for some.....helmets....cleats....pitch in for Banquets, buses, trophies, dummies, footballs.....

Do money drills, candy bar drills, pancakes and waffles funds, pay day carnivals....make side bets with players.....

Im outta control I guess but will change NOTHING!

What is beautiful, lives forever.


ReplyQuote
bignose
(@bignose)
Silver
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 917
 

make side bets with players.....

Im outta control I guess but will change NOTHING!

Side bets with players? How much cash is involved? LOL

You are probably where a lot of youth coaches are, you do things to motivate and out of care for the kids........but what we had down in the nearby city was guys putting thousands of dollars down on the outcome of kids games. They either were the coach or the coach was receiving a kickback.........and the "stars" were getting all sorts of "benefits' under the table. I know this because one of my QBs played in this league.

Hell, I used to give out the "Golden Spike" award for best blocks, or tackles.
I got a couple of dozen old railroad spikes and painted them gold. No real cash value, just an award and recognition for those kids in the trenches.

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles!


ReplyQuote
mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 23169
 

Side bets with players? How much cash is involved? LOL

Quarters.....and I usually lose  8)

What is beautiful, lives forever.


ReplyQuote
Prodigy
(@prodigy)
Platinum
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 2520
 

I’ve purchased cleats for players, given rides and purchased lunch for kids when they don’t have rides to the games...I think that’s a bit different than awarding a kid with a new pair of Jordan’s because he got 10 tackles in a game. 

If you show up for a fair fight, you are unprepared.


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17877
 

In both AYF and Pop Warner you cannot award/reward an individual player for on-field performance.  That means you cannot put a sticker on their helmet for a sack, tackle, touchdown or pancake...nor can you give them $100 or a new pair of shoes or a t-shirt.

I've heard of "Nestle Crunch Bars" being handed out in recognition of big hits but I think it's safe to assume that too is against the rules.

I've bought kids cleats, bought the entire team jerseys, belts, socks, mouthpieces...not for performance but because they needed it.  And yes, we've given out Crunch bars as well as academic trophies and certificates for academic recognition.  If's that's against the rules, then I'm guilty.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
Coach E
(@coache)
Gold
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 1120
 

Do any of you have rules restricting or allowing payment to players and/or their parents to play?  If so, please share with us the wording.  Also interested in hearing opinions about paying kids to play.  Examples:

Paying kids for good hits/sacks/interceptions/tds, etc,
  We did helmet stickers
Reducing or eliminating fees to play
Offering "scholarships".
  Both of these are based on need. We have a scholarship program in our district that pays entry fees for all sorts of extracurricular activities.
Paying for special items (dinners, lunches, uniforms, etc.)
  This can be a slippery slope so be very clear as to what you are buying and why.
Discounts (car rentals, movie discounts, etc.)
  No. This has nothing to do with need.

I know college and high rules exist, what about rec?

Bottom line, if you're providing for a kid to allow him to play, the that should be good. Financial awards for on-field performance would be a no-no; Crunch bars, excepted, of course. (Just a thought, but what would happen if you inadvertently bought a Nestle $100000 Dollar Bar instead of a Nestle Crunch Bar? Would the powers that be come down on you for that?)

The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.- Marcus Aurelius


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 17877
 

what would happen if you inadvertently bought a Nestle $100000 Dollar Bar instead of a Nestle Crunch Bar? Would the powers that be come down on you for that?)

Dunno.  We thought about the different candy bars out there.  For us, the Crunch Bar fit the bill.  At Pop Warner, we gave them out for causing or recovering fumbles.  At high school, we gave them out for good plays.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4500
 

I just pored over our rules. Nothing that addresses this topic at all.

Scholarships/reduced fees are up to each club in the league. Our club's scholarships are need based and have conditions that must be met (attendance and volunteer hours). I have no idea if it is full or partial. I pay for one kid every year out of my own pocket. It never matters to me whether the kid is at the top or bottom of the talent tree. I guess you'll have to take my word for it. I could be wrong, but I don't think there's a mechanism in our club for using "talent" as a deciding factor for scholarships. I'm pretty sure the only reason to deny a scholarship request is failing to demonstrate "need".

This is the first season in quite a while that I haven't bought a helmet for someone.

I took one of my o-linemen to dinner with my son (also a coach) at a sandwich shop. This was a failed attempt to find out from him how to find is "on" switch.

The last two weekends, I took 3-4 of our players to the local HS game. I paid for their tickets at about $5 per kid and fed them. I wouldn't accept reimbursement from their parents, even though they offered. Some of the kids have parents with money, some didn't. I had literally the best player on the team and literally the worst kid in the same car.

My 18 year old son took a group of kids to see "IT", but they wouldn't let them in without a 21 year old, so he took them bowling instead. I assume he paid for all of them.

Our HC paid for new jerseys up front out of his own pocket, then was doing the "loan shark" thing for the kids whose parents hadn't paid yet. I told him to send me the bill for unpaid jerseys at the end of the season. Everyone apparently paid, though.

I have no reason to believe that gambling or paying parents to bring their kid to a club takes place in the Denver metro area. I could just be naive, though.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
COCoachKC
(@cocoachkc)
Bronze
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 355
 

I have no reason to believe that gambling or paying parents to bring their kid to a club takes place in the Denver metro area. I could just be naive, though.

Lar,

Become a league board member.  You will find that some clubs are very guilty of this. 

There is one club in my old league that are masters of this.  I know of a coach who provided one of his rental homes to a family free of charge so the kid could be on his team.  There were even cases of people paying families to register their kid and then not show up except for weigh-in in order to "cook" the residency rules. 

It seems every time a new rule was put in place to discourage these actions, someone would find a new way to bend the rules.

Kent


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4500
 

I know of a coach who provided one of his rental homes to a family free of charge so the kid could be on his team.

Wow. It never occurred to me that anyone would care that much about youth ball around here.

There were even cases of people paying families to register their kid and then not show up except for weigh-in in order to "cook" the residency rules. 

Now that, I'm aware of. Worst kept secret in CO.

It seems every time a new rule was put in place to discourage these actions, someone would find a new way to bend the rules.

Kent

Or flat out ignore the rule(s) and threaten to leave if it was ever enforced.

We see a lot of movement with some orgs after a Spring season. Kids we face in Spring from way out East end up playing in the Fall way out West. Nothing illegal there. Many parents come to us in the Spring and ask to move to our Fall team. Answer is always the same: "Stay with your old team". We've picked up some recruits in the last few Spring seasons (kids who have never played for JMFA). Mahonz always asks me if I want them for the Fall. I always say "yes". All of these kids have been "one taskers". You'd think Mike would stop asking me. 🙂 We're like a select team in reverse.

There is one team, but I've only heard rumors, so I won't name them. It seems that they have pulled a lot of kids from other JMFA orgs. However, the rules would have to be enforced for them to have to resort to rental properties, etc.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
Threepwood
(@wettstein)
Bronze
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 367
Topic starter  

So, I support most of the things people mention, however what I don't like are the scholarships to above average players.  I seldom see people pay for players that can't afford (although I know it happens), but every year, I hear first hand how parents are pleased their sons received a "scholarship" to play.  These kids always turn out to be star players.  In my opinion, it is buying talent.  There are
no good intentions here - it is strictly to buy talent in order to win.


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4500
 

So, I support most of the things people mention, however what I don't like are the scholarships to above average players.  I seldom see people pay for players that can't afford (although I know it happens), but every year, I hear first hand how parents are pleased their sons received a "scholarship" to play.  These kids always turn out to be star players.  In my opinion, it is buying talent.  There are
no good intentions here - it is strictly to buy talent in order to win.

Here's a link to our scholarship page. http://arvadafootball.com/Page.asp?n=118479&org=M.WW.ARVADAFOOTBALL.COM

I'm not on that board, but it looks legit to me. I was also chair of the scholarship committee for my son's hockey club. We never denied a scholarship in the 4 years I was chair, but if someone didn't need it, we would have denied it.

As far as my personally paying for kids . . . I've paid for the best player on the team as well as the worst. Also, once they're on our team, they can't legally go anywhere else in our league, so it's not like an incentive to come to us or stay with us.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 2
Share: