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Punting and expanded neutral zone


ZACH
 ZACH
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Reffed a 12u game last night with heavy winds thanks to be hurricane residual.

Team A punted, the ball travelled less than 5 yards after the wind took it for a ride. Ball hits a defender, offense recovers. By rule since the ball didn't travel beyond the 10 yard free kick neutral zone Team B is awarded the ball or turn over in downs. 

Since the game was close, team A was in an uproar after we called first down for team B. Literally had to go to my car and grab the rule book and made the coach read it, I have it book marked thankfully. 

  • Something to remember a free kick has an expanded neutral zone. Ball must pass 10 yards for the team that kicked to have access to obtaining possession.

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Bob Goodman
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How was a free kick awarded that was taken as a punt?  Was it a free kick after a safety or a fair catch?  How is the neutral zone expanded on a free kick?  Was this a league rule, because it sure isn't that way in any of the major codes?  10 yards is the depth of the neutral zone on a free kick, period, no expansion.  But if on a free kick the ball hits a defender, the neutral zone no longer matters.


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ZACH
 ZACH
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Posted by: @bob-goodman

How was a free kick awarded that was taken as a punt?  Was it a free kick after a safety or a fair catch?  How is the neutral zone expanded on a free kick?  Was this a league rule, because it sure isn't that way in any of the major codes?  10 yards is the depth of the neutral zone on a free kick, period, no expansion.  But if on a free kick the ball hits a defender, the neutral zone no longer matters.

I mis typed my initial post meant to type "scrimmage kick" as I was surrounded by folks talking about free kicks and other kicking rules at the time. 

A punt must advance 10 yds for the team kicking to have a chance to recover the possession and be touched by the intended receiving team prior. 

Thanks Bob for going through the details

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @bucksweep58
Posted by: @bob-goodman

How was a free kick awarded that was taken as a punt?  Was it a free kick after a safety or a fair catch?  How is the neutral zone expanded on a free kick?  Was this a league rule, because it sure isn't that way in any of the major codes?  10 yards is the depth of the neutral zone on a free kick, period, no expansion.  But if on a free kick the ball hits a defender, the neutral zone no longer matters.

I mis typed my initial post meant to type "scrimmage kick" as I was surrounded by folks talking about free kicks and other kicking rules at the time. 

A punt must advance 10 yds for the team kicking to have a chance to recover the possession and be touched by the intended receiving team prior. 

Thanks Bob for going through the details

But it's still wrong.  The neutral zone isn't expanded anywhere near 10 yards on a scrimmage kick.  It's only 2 yards.


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gumby_in_co
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The rules are confusing as hell, but as I understand it, neutral zone is 10 yards on a free-kick down. Scrimmage down is 2 yards. However, I was able to convince a ref to give us the ball when we had clearly lost it. They punted (poorly), ball touched their guy about 5 yards down field. We scooped it, but muffed it. They recovered. I convinced the ref that we wanted the ball where it was first touched.

At the time, I thought I was correct, but after reading the rules later, I think I was wrong. Point is, I don't have a high degree of confidence in refs knowing the rules.

This post was modified 2 months ago by gumby_in_co

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

The rules are confusing as hell, but as I understand it, neutral zone is 10 yards on a free-kick down. Scrimmage down is 2 yards. However, I was able to convince a ref to give us the ball when we had clearly lost it. They punted (poorly), ball touched their guy about 5 yards down field. We scooped it, but muffed it. They recovered. I convinced the ref that we wanted the ball where it was first touched.

At the time, I thought I was correct, but after reading the rules later, I think I was wrong. Point is, I don't have a high degree of confidence in refs knowing the rules.

If a player from your team "scooped it, but muffed it", does that mean your player gained possession and then lost it?  Because if that's so, your team should've gotten possession where it was gained, the ball becoming dead and subsequent "play" ignored.  But if you meant he tried to scoop it and failed, then, yeah, you got a gift.  Since no advance is allowed by the kicking team on the receiving team's side of the neutral zone, it's never a good idea to try to scoop such a ball.

Barring league rules to the contrary, of course.


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gumby_in_co
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Tried and failed. To be fair to the ref, I was very convincing.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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ZACH
 ZACH
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

The rules are confusing as hell, but as I understand it, neutral zone is 10 yards on a free-kick down. Scrimmage down is 2 yards. However, I was able to convince a ref to give us the ball when we had clearly lost it. They punted (poorly), ball touched their guy about 5 yards down field. We scooped it, but muffed it. They recovered. I convinced the ref that we wanted the ball where it was first touched.

At the time, I thought I was correct, but after reading the rules later, I think I was wrong. Point is, I don't have a high degree of confidence in refs knowing the rules.

Every officials meeting, before we talk to coaches In high school all my head official have gone over kicking situations. 

The expanded neutral zone gets tricky as the line judges need to be aware of where it begins and ends. Where the ball lands should be marked by the nearest officials bean bag more then likely the field/side  judge or the umpire whoever is back there. This is key for disputing this rule as I learned in a meeting during state playoffs. 

If the ball touched a defender inside the expanded neutral zone and it hits the ground it should be blown dead unless behind the los. If the ball was still airborne after being touched by a defender and recovered by your team long enough to have "possession " it should've been blown dead, if still inside the expanded neutral zone. 

Since they ignored the expanded neutral zone, they should've awarded the ball to R, as for recovering a fumble if they thought your man had "possession" they should've been awarded the ball.  Since none of this happened they should've just blown it dead lol. Or you just convince them to call it in your favor lol.

Only time k can advance a scrimmage kick is if the kicked ball doesn't pass the line of scrimmage due to block by R or even K or weather.  

 

 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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