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sabot6d
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Question about a ruling from our game this weekend.

We had an away game out of state. 4th quarter opponent has the ball and we are down. About 6 minutes left.

4th and 12. We stop them after a 4 yard gain. Player on their team takes a cheap shot at my OLB after the whistle, my OLB shoves the player. Flags fly. As they separate my OLB says something (unsure what as it was along the opposing sideline.

Officials call 3 penalties. 2 offsetting personal fouls against those players and a second personal foul against my OLB for running his mouth as he walked away.

They give the opponents the ball first and 10 15 yards upfield.

I was under the impression it should've been our ball 15 yards back as all were dead ball after the whistle.ti

Our coach was ejected for arguing the call that they retained possession. He did make a snide remark about home cooking and "special indiana rules" but the ejection was way overzealous.

We lost by 2 points. This was absolutely a game defining ruling.


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PSLCOACHROB
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Should of been your ball as all flags were after the change of possession. Same thing with a turnover, when the penalty is committed, before or after the change, is the determing factor.


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sabot6d
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That's what I thought as well. Head coach is forwarding the footage to the IHSAA ref governing body but opponents are not giving up the crews names. It's really weird.


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Coach TonyM
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That's what I thought as well. Head coach is forwarding the footage to the IHSAA ref governing body but opponents are not giving up the crews names. It's really weird.

Not sure about Indiana,  but in North Carolina the booking agent for referees has a list of all referees and games they attended.  all you would have to do here would be to contact the booking agent for that area.  Probably something similar there.


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patriotsfatboy1
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Send the film in along with the complaint. Let your conference put pressure for them to deal with. They should be able to determine who the refs are. Are you concerned that the last name of a ref will match one of your opponents’s coaches? 🙂


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sabot6d
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Whether they were related I hadn't thought of. We consistently run into very questionable calls when traveling into Indiana. More so than the normal home field advantage.


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Bob Goodman
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How about a late hit after time expires for the game?


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sabot6d
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So the IHSAA has revoked the side judges certification and our conference has banned the side judge from working any games.

The white hat is currently suspended pending further investigation.  All in all it was a shit show of a ref job that game and we get to eat a loss (which I never suspected would be reversed anyways). Our HC who was ejected has had his automatic one game suspension lifted. I hope we meet these guys again come playoff time.

Bob, there was about 6 minutes left of game time when the late hit that started the ordeal came.


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Bob Goodman
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Bob, there was about 6 minutes left of game time when the late hit that started the ordeal came.

I wasn't asking about your situation, but one that came up in mine this past Sat. in the Morris County Youth Football League, which uses Fed rules as a base.

A runner loose down the sideline.  Our player tackled him, but the runner was ruled to have already stepped out of bounds upfield.

We drew a flag for the late hit.  We were told time had expired for the 2nd half on the play, but the acceptance of the penalty allowed the other team to snap the ball on an additional untimed down, on which they almost won the game.

Our coaches were mostly complaining that the whistle had been late, so that our player had no notice play was dead so as not to make a tackle.  I focused on another issue entirely: If time expired before the ball was dead, isn't the game over?  Can you extend a period for a dead ball foul enforcement?  Can you even have any such thing as a foul in such a situation?  is there some "continuing action" provision in Fed that allows an enforcement after expiration of time for the game?  Fed has rules about when officials' jurisdiction ends that may include action immediately following the game, but I don't think any possible sanctions resulting can have any effect on the game that just ended.


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patriotsfatboy1
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I wasn't asking about your situation, but one that came up in mine this past Sat. in the Morris County Youth Football League, which uses Fed rules as a base.

A runner loose down the sideline.  Our player tackled him, but the runner was ruled to have already stepped out of bounds upfield.

We drew a flag for the late hit.  We were told time had expired for the 2nd half on the play, but the acceptance of the penalty allowed the other team to snap the ball on an additional untimed down, on which they almost won the game.

Our coaches were mostly complaining that the whistle had been late, so that our player had no notice play was dead so as not to make a tackle.  I focused on another issue entirely: If time expired before the ball was dead, isn't the game over?  Can you extend a period for a dead ball foul enforcement?  Can you even have any such thing as a foul in such a situation?  is there some "continuing action" provision in Fed that allows an enforcement after expiration of time for the game?  Fed has rules about when officials' jurisdiction ends that may include action immediately following the game, but I don't think any possible sanctions resulting can have any effect on the game that just ended.

Your defensive penalty was not after the play was over. A late hit out of bounds is not a dead ball foul. The refs were correct.

If your player had held up, not hit him, but tainted the other player after the ref signaled game over, then it would have been dead ball and game over. Your player may be written up in that situation, but game is over.


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sabot6d
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I thought you may have been talking about a different situation but answered just in case.


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Bob Goodman
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Your defensive penalty was not after the play was over. A late hit out of bounds is not a dead ball foul. The refs were correct.

So not all fouls committed while a ball is dead are dead ball fouls?

Let's make this simple.  The ball was dead when the runner touched the ground out of bounds, right?  If the ball weren't dead, then an opponent's tackling him wouldn't be unnecessary roughness.

So the ball is dead and the down is ended.  Time had expired during the down for the game.  Fed rules say a period is extended for penalties accepted for most fouls committed during a down.  But this was not a foul committed during a down.  In fact it's silly to even call it a foul because the game was over when the ball became dead after a down during which time expired and no live ball foul had occurred.  It's just an unfortunate post-game occurrence.  An official might drop a flag because he didn't realize the game had ended, but that doesn't make it a foul.

If a period other than the last had ended and this occurred, it would be a foul whose enforcement would occur at the start of the next period.  Had there been a tiebreaking provision, the rules might provide for a way to penalize the foul at the beginning of tie-breaking play in the case of fouls like this following the end of regulation play.  But we don't break ties.


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patriotsfatboy1
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Bob - you are wrong. The play is not over once the kid steps out of bounds. A late hit is part of the play. You are confusing dead ball and after the play is over.


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32wedge
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We had an away game out of state.

I hope we meet these guys again come playoff time.

You play out of state teams in the playoffs?


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sabot6d
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You play out of state teams in the playoffs?

yes. our conference is weird. we have teams in Southern Michigan, Northern Indiana, NE Illinois and NW Ohio


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