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DKTurtle
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The league I coach ended last week, the other local league had their championship game today. I coached several kids on both teams in wrestling so I figured I'd stop down and check it out. A little bit of rain and both teams are run heavy anyway so passing game is a non factor to the point where only 1 pass was attempted beyond the LOS all game. 

Physically, these teams are as evenly matched as you will ever find. Evenly matched across the board, position by position, to the point where they are virtually carbon copies of each other. Both teams are also well coached in that they are aggressive, block and tackle well. Both are disciplined in that they don't get caught giving up big plays by being out of position. 

I overheard one of the parents talking about how these teams played early in the season and it went to overtime. I don't know that part for a fact, but I believe it. So what I found interesting is that the main difference as far as I could see was their blocking scheme. I can't tell exactly what their blocking rules are but I can see that Team A relies heavily on down blocks and Team B relies on drive blocks. 

Team A ends up winning 16-0 with Team B's coaches shaking their heads getting upset that their line just isn't blocking today. The thing is, their kids were blocking. They were blocking really well actually, just as well as Team A's line. But the holes were never as big and closed quicker because Team A used an angle advantage that Team B didn't. 

I have little doubt that if both teams relied on the same type of blocking that the game would have ended up coming down to extra points or overtime. I just found this game really interesting. I don't think I've ever watched a game with teams so evenly matched with just one glaring difference between them.  

Edit: This was a 12u game.

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @dkturtle

Team A ends up winning 16-0 with Team B's coaches shaking their heads getting upset that their line just isn't blocking today. The thing is, their kids were blocking. They were blocking really well actually, just as well as Team A's line.

It happens right in front of them and they still still don't see it?  That's what's called, "blind."

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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DKTurtle
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @dkturtle

Team A ends up winning 16-0 with Team B's coaches shaking their heads getting upset that their line just isn't blocking today. The thing is, their kids were blocking. They were blocking really well actually, just as well as Team A's line.

It happens right in front of them and they still still don't see it?  That's what's called, "blind."

--Dave

His eyes are on the backfield,  I'm sure.  The holes he was used to against less talented opponents weren't there yesterday.  He just didn't understand why.

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @dkturtle

  The holes he was used to against less talented opponents weren't there yesterday.  He just didn't understand why.

I've come to believe that a 100% "check with me" system is the single best thing you can do for an offense. See what they line up in and run where they ain't.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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I never understand what people mean when they talk about an offense that depends on “drive” blocking. I have never heard of a drive blocking scheme and isn’t every block a drive block in one direction or the other?  

Power, counter, trap, inside and outside zone, dart, duo etc. are all based on driving another player in a direction. 

Are there teams that attempt to simply push the other players forward down the field? Is that what people are saying? If so where is the ball supposed to be inserted? Even ISO is dependent on a double team that moves they key defender in a direction. 


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J. Potter (seabass)
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I never understand what people mean when they talk about an offense that depends on “drive” blocking. I have never heard of a drive blocking scheme and isn’t every block a drive block in one direction or the other?  

Power, counter, trap, inside and outside zone, dart, duo etc. are all based on driving another player in a direction. 

Are there teams that attempt to simply push the other players forward down the field? Is that what people are saying? If so where is the ball supposed to be inserted? Even ISO is dependent on a double team that moves they key defender in a direction. 


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @seabass

I never understand what people mean when they talk about an offense that depends on “drive” blocking. I have never heard of a drive blocking scheme and isn’t every block a drive block in one direction or the other?  

Power, counter, trap, inside and outside zone, dart, duo etc. are all based on driving another player in a direction. 

Are there teams that attempt to simply push the other players forward down the field? Is that what people are saying? If so where is the ball supposed to be inserted? Even ISO is dependent on a double team that moves they key defender in a direction. 

I said the same thing about 7 years ago. That was the start of my education by Michael. But to be fair, I don't consider what Michael did, or what I do in mega splits to be drive blocking. It's a 1 on 1 block, but I'm not trying to move anyone.

When I was in HS, my sophomore coach used to say, "For this play to work, you need to drive your man 5 yards down the field." I remember thinking that this play had very little of chance of succeeding if that were the case. 

BTW, not saying this is right, but I do not use a double team in my ISO. Years ago, I asked this very forum what the rules were for ISO and most said, "Gap On Backer". So that's how I run it. I'm very new to running ISO, though. Just started this year, but it's turning out to be one heck of a play.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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DKTurtle
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Posted by: @seabass

I never understand what people mean when they talk about an offense that depends on “drive” blocking. I have never heard of a drive blocking scheme and isn’t every block a drive block in one direction or the other?  

Power, counter, trap, inside and outside zone, dart, duo etc. are all based on driving another player in a direction. 

Are there teams that attempt to simply push the other players forward down the field? Is that what people are saying? If so where is the ball supposed to be inserted? Even ISO is dependent on a double team that moves they key defender in a direction. 

A surprising number of youth teams in my area seem to simply push the other players forward down the field. Nearly every team plays a 6-2 until modified due to league rules, so often every OL except for the C is covered, and many teams' blocking scheme seems to be "block the guy in front of you."

 

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @dkturtle
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @dkturtle

Team A ends up winning 16-0 with Team B's coaches shaking their heads getting upset that their line just isn't blocking today. The thing is, their kids were blocking. They were blocking really well actually, just as well as Team A's line.

It happens right in front of them and they still still don't see it?  That's what's called, "blind."

--Dave

His eyes are on the backfield,  I'm sure.  The holes he was used to against less talented opponents weren't there yesterday.  He just didn't understand why.

Then I was completely wrong.  It's not called, "blind."  It's called, "stupid."

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @dkturtle

A surprising number of youth teams in my area seem to simply push the other players forward down the field. Nearly every team plays a 6-2 until modified due to league rules, so often every OL except for the C is covered, and many teams' blocking scheme seems to be "block the guy in front of you."

That's surprising?  I thought that was most teams' modus operandi.  And when it doesn't work, they blame their players for not blocking (as has been evidenced by several coaches here).

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@dkturtle

 

I see what you're saying. So they really have no scheme at all.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@gumby_in_co

 

You don't have to get a double on ISO but we will take a double/combo if we can get it. We almost always get double/combo on power but played a team last week that, due to their alignment, didn't give us a double. However, in our traditional offense (normal splits) we have to move people to win...we don't have to move them 5 yards but A stalemate isn't the goal either.

 


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @seabass

@gumby_in_co

 

You don't have to get a double on ISO but we will take a double/combo if we can get it. We almost always get double/combo on power but played a team last week that, due to their alignment, didn't give us a double. However, in our traditional offense (normal splits) we have to move people to win...we don't have to move them 5 yards but A stalemate isn't the goal either.

 

Ah. Makes total sense. Our last 5 opponents didn't cover our tackle, so they were essentially begging us to run ISO. Next opponent is running a WT 62, so ISO will be on the menu for them as well. I can see why you'd use a double if your tackle is covered or they are in the B gap. Something to think about for next year. DW will have priority, but if DW is working, I formation is an easy install.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @seabass

I never understand what people mean when they talk about an offense that depends on “drive” blocking. I have never heard of a drive blocking scheme and isn’t every block a drive block in one direction or the other?  

Power, counter, trap, inside and outside zone, dart, duo etc. are all based on driving another player in a direction. 

Yes, but "drive block" came long ago to mean "straight ahead".

Are there teams that attempt to simply push the other players forward down the field? Is that what people are saying? If so where is the ball supposed to be inserted?

Commonly, a hole is opened by a 2-on-1 drive block that pushes one opponent back while the runner angles thru left or right behind the other opponents.

However, a lot of what's advertised as 1-on-1 drive blocking is really just a way to stick on the opponent, standing him up so he's too off balance to move to either side to make the tackle.  The defender is stuck exerting force against the blocker to stay in place -- or to slide sideways, "wherever he wants to go", which isn't really where he wants to go.  Now the ballcarrier's coming just left or right of where this standoff is occurring, and if the defender wants to move that way, he has to redirect some of his own force that's been going into staying in place against the blocker's force.  In doing so, he risks being pancaked.

I don't like this style of play for the offense, and I'd rather use angles, but I must acknowledge that it works for some the way I described above.

Because it's effective coming from some offenses, I don't like that style of play for the DL either!  If your DL is dominant, they can afford to stand up against the blocker and still shuck him aside to make the tackle as the runner comes.  But if your DL is not dominant, then I'd rather have them use techniques to penetrate and create havoc in the backfield, even at the risk of opening holes.

Even ISO is dependent on a double team that moves they key defender in a direction. 

 

Not the iso plays I'm familiar with.  The OL is 1-on-1 and the lead back takes care of a LB or S.


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Coyote
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Posted by: @dkturtle

but I can see that Team A relies heavily on down blocks

We're the only team in our league that uses down blocking.  This past season was disaster, but we'd won the league title the prior 4 seasons straight.  The rest of the league is toe-to-toe 'block the man in front of you', our poor season this yr is supposed proof that what we'd been winning with the prior seasons doesn't work.  I've come to believe that for many (most?) folk, rather than following the evidence to a conclusion, they use their conclusions determine the meaning of the evidence.  

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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