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DKTurtle
(@dkturtle)
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Joined: 7 years ago
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Posted by: @coyote
Posted by: @dkturtle

but I can see that Team A relies heavily on down blocks

We're the only team in our league that uses down blocking.  This past season was disaster, but we'd won the league title the prior 4 seasons straight.  The rest of the league is toe-to-toe 'block the man in front of you', our poor season this yr is supposed proof that what we'd been winning with the prior seasons doesn't work.  I've come to believe that for many (most?) folk, rather than following the evidence to a conclusion, they use their conclusions determine the meaning of the evidence.  

Sounds like you should scrap what you've been doing in favor of a toe-to-toe 'block the man in front of you' scheme. /s

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @coyote

We're the only team in our league that uses down blocking.  This past season was disaster, but we'd won the league title the prior 4 seasons straight. 

What's the reason for your 180?

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @dkturtle

Sounds like you should scrap what you've been doing in favor of a toe-to-toe 'block the man in front of you' scheme. /s

lol.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Coyote
(@coyote)
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Posts: 430
 
Posted by: @coachdp

What's the reason for your 180?

--Dave

We had had a long stretch of good luck when it came to lack of injuries, lack of illness, and such.  This yr seemed to be the perfect storm - 4 of 7 games we had to borrow players just to field a team (automatic forfeits, but at least the kids got to play).   HC blames himself for a poor draft, he is usually spot on with his picks.   

Reality is, I could fill out a laundry list of excuses, but the bottom line is we (I) didn't find a way to overcome.  

This post was modified 1 year ago by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @coyote

We had had a long stretch of good luck when it came to lack of injuries, lack of illness, and such.  This yr seemed to be the perfect storm - 4 of 7 games we had to borrow players just to field a team (automatic forfeits, but at least the kids got to play).   HC blames himself for a poor draft, he is usually spot on with his picks.   

--Poor draft?  Did his draft effect having enough players?

Reality is, I could fill out a laundry list of excuses, but the bottom line is we (I) didn't find a way to overcome.  

--Well, every season is new problems, new issues, and having to find new ways around problems.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachSteel
(@coachsteel)
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Joined: 5 years ago
Posts: 50
 

Like many others have mentioned, it’s seems like most teams in our league apply the “block the guy in front of you” blocking scheme. As a down blocking team I’ve noticed that most defensive linemen seem perplexed when the O-linemen in front of them steps down and doesn’t engage them. Then when they get blocked down on it’s like they don’t know what to do and just allow us to wash them right out of the play. The “block somebody”blocking scheme doesn’t just hurt your offense, it hurts your defense too. 


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 13 years ago
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Posted by: @coachsteel

Like many others have mentioned, it’s seems like most teams in our league apply the “block the guy in front of you” blocking scheme. As a down blocking team I’ve noticed that most defensive linemen seem perplexed when the O-linemen in front of them steps down and doesn’t engage them. Then when they get blocked down on it’s like they don’t know what to do and just allow us to wash them right out of the play. The “block somebody”blocking scheme doesn’t just hurt your offense, it hurts your defense too. 

I'd like Troy's take on our league. Troy uses a lot of down blocking. We used a lot of down blocking in TKO, sometimes Gap On Backer. Just about everyone else . . . no idea. I see a lot of double and even triple teams. Not sure if that's on purpose or not. They better teams, definitely on purpose. The better teams seem to have gotten away from jet sweeping and instead toss to their stud back and let him run like a stretch play. They have figured out how to succeed with good blocking backs. 

The reigning champion?  Not sure he has a plan. I do know that he teaches his center to really reach for the ball to keep his hips back, then teaches his line to push the limit of being legally off the ball. He does this so they'll get a good running start on their blocks. They don't have a lot of size, but are very athletic. He just keeps feeding his talent and they are usually good for a couple of big plays, even against very good defenses.

Other than Troy or myself, not sure if any other coach in our league knows what a kick out block is. One coach ran Single Wing last year, so I'm sure he knows, but we didn't play him this year. Besides, he went to a spread offense featuring swing passes and bubble screens.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Coyote
(@coyote)
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Joined: 3 years ago
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Posted by: @coyote

-Poor draft?  Did his draft effect having enough players?

  • We led the league in trips to Holiday World.  Drafted too many, 'its just for fun, we're taking off this week-end, good-luck Sat" parents. 
  • Our 1st round pick turned out to be from a Baseball family, missed 2 games and a bunch of practices to go play baseball.  
  • We also missed on a couple kids who looked really good in shorts during the combine, but avoided contact.  We get those every season, and generally we're pretty good at bringing them along by the 2rd - 3rd game.  One finally started to get into the contact in game 6, the other never did. 
  • Our most promising OL 3rd grader, got pulled by his mom when covid hit code red in our county - Before the draft, HC said he'd had a feeling this kid wouldn't finish the season, but I talked him into taking the kid (no recriminations there), athletically he was right there. 
  • He also gambled on a couple kids late in the draft, they didn't work out, and kids he'd passed on those rounds did well for the teams that took them. 

     

  • HC says he didn't dig into the family backgrounds as effectively as he normally does, and under-valued some of the kids we could have picked up, but he chose to pass on.

    Our biggest absentee issue was quarantines due to exposure, but that's not a draft issue.  No kids got sick.  But we'd have 2 to 6 kids out of practice and/or games every week.  We got hit by the exposure quarantines much harder than any other team in the league.  We only had 2 practices all season with the whole team, and never played a game with the complete roster. 

    We've found ways to handle issues, problems in the past, this season we failed to navigate them effectively.   

This post was modified 1 year ago 4 times by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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Troy
 Troy
(@troy)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 175
 
Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @coachsteel

Like many others have mentioned, it’s seems like most teams in our league apply the “block the guy in front of you” blocking scheme. As a down blocking team I’ve noticed that most defensive linemen seem perplexed when the O-linemen in front of them steps down and doesn’t engage them. Then when they get blocked down on it’s like they don’t know what to do and just allow us to wash them right out of the play. The “block somebody”blocking scheme doesn’t just hurt your offense, it hurts your defense too. 

I'd like Troy's take on our league. Troy uses a lot of down blocking. We used a lot of down blocking in TKO, sometimes Gap On Backer. Just about everyone else . . . no idea. I see a lot of double and even triple teams. Not sure if that's on purpose or not. They better teams, definitely on purpose. The better teams seem to have gotten away from jet sweeping and instead toss to their stud back and let him run like a stretch play. They have figured out how to succeed with good blocking backs. 

The reigning champion?  Not sure he has a plan. I do know that he teaches his center to really reach for the ball to keep his hips back, then teaches his line to push the limit of being legally off the ball. He does this so they'll get a good running start on their blocks. They don't have a lot of size, but are very athletic. He just keeps feeding his talent and they are usually good for a couple of big plays, even against very good defenses.

Other than Troy or myself, not sure if any other coach in our league knows what a kick out block is. One coach ran Single Wing last year, so I'm sure he knows, but we didn't play him this year. Besides, he went to a spread offense featuring swing passes and bubble screens.

@gumby_in_co  Congrats on your tournament win! That will be a great building block and confidence booster for your boys.

I haven't seen much kickout blocking in our league. The champs reach block on the DEs and sometimes double with their fullback/wing (#37). I hate the reach block. It just feels clunky and difficult to me. I'd rather bring the BB full speed and blast the DE out or bring the Jet full speed in and crack him down. Get the DE's head on a swivel. It seems like better physics and easier to execute to me.

The trouble we have with the champs is their LB speed and skill. I think their defense is exceptionally well-coached and disciplined. They do have good athletic size and they do their jobs and pursue relentlessly. Their lateral pursuit is a full level above everyone else. If you do not get hats on their LBs, your O will go in reverse.

Most teams in out league do not appear to block LBs by design. At best, they might they read up. Maybe they get a hat on the CB on sweeps. We do try to assign a blocker to the playside CB, playside OLB, and Mike every play. 

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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Troy
 Troy
(@troy)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 175
 

@gumby_in_co ...I've seen teams use single wing, beast, and double wing FORMATIONS but not the corresponding blocking. A formation alone is obviously not an offensive system. I love the double wing. I have not seen anyone truly run it in JYFA in 11 seasons here. They may use the formation but they don't block it the way it is designed by Hugh Wyatt and Don Markham (kickouts, pulls, shoe-shine the backside DT, etc.). I saw a coach run a fully-formed double wing back in my Hyland Hills days. They were really good. The coach's name was Mike Ray. 

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 4969
 
Posted by: @troy

I love the double wing. I have not seen anyone truly run it in JYFA in 11 seasons here. 

Hold on to your hat then. ? 

I'm going to keep going in my pursuit of an empty package to compliment the DW. I have QB who patched this year, but with the removal of that rule for 6th grade, he gives us some interesting possibilities. 

I'll also run some traditional I because it's really only moving one guy and our option out of I turned out to be eye opening.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 13 years ago
Posts: 18322
 
Posted by: @troy

A formation alone is obviously not an offensive system.

Oh, you'll get an argument from the Facebook coaches on that.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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