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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @bucksweep58

I've gone away from acronym blocking on the basis of "what if" ... "What if he's here or there "  our progression is similar as far as what makes me covered vs uncovered.  I also reiterate I'll take your best your judgement over a missed block at Los.

Our coaches seemed to phase out (over years) teaching GDB in favor of having the OL recognize fronts.  For a while we were having our center call the number of DL, which seemed redundant if everyone on the OL was either recognizing a front or following a rule.

To tell the truth, this year only our 20 (buck sweep) series looks much like wing T any more.  Even that one, starting in 2019 the QB's footwork changed because Newton (NJ) HS's had, to where he's just shuffling back after opening toward the HB.  But that and jet are the only series where GDB and MOMA (for the C) apply; we switched jet from reach to down blocked in 2019, but still hardly used it.  The 80 (belly) series (where the QB's reverse pivot was also eliminated) we're now "on" blocking (basically MOMA even at the POA, like an iso).  Edit: I saw from Aug. 31 practice we're doing reverse pivot on belly after all.

So it looks like a generic T or pro or I running game, where we're not exploiting angles so much as sticking on whomever we got.  Truth be told, although this sort of "vanilla" attack (with somewhat weak misdirection) isn't what I prefer coaching, it has been what the most successful teams I've coached for have used.  (Also the worst, my first year coaching.)

This post was modified 1 year ago by Bob Goodman

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Dusty Ol Fart
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Just spent Sunday watching the 6th Grade OL get smoked by what seemed like HS Kids.  5 kids on the opposing team dwarfed our Biggest kid and he's 5'10 170.  We had Zero Answer.  

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Youthballee
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Long thread here, but I'm back to teaching the youngest tackle kids in our program. They're eight and nine. Couple still seven. 

We're teaching the o- line "GOB". Gap, On, Backer. 

1) GAP - Block the dude in your PLAYSIDE gap. If there isn't anyone there.....

2) ON - Block the dude lined up ON you. If there isn't anyone there.....

3) BACKER - Go get a backer. Hopefully they run into the one who may be blitzing their gap. 

We also rarely block the back side DE. He's gotta be superman to get around our tackle and catch a jet or boot or whatever we do play side. 

Week one or so, we'll be vulnerable to twists and delayed blitzes, but having been around this league for nine years, we'll see very little of that until maybe week four.

Our whole o-line (and d-line) are returning starters from when they were eight last year. One small problem is, there was nearly no o-line (or d-line) teaching last year with the kids who are in their second year in this age group. The o-linemen weren't even in the huddle for play calls. They don't understand gaps (on O or D). They don't understand "play side" or "back side". They wouldn't understand "blocking down", if we told them too. 

They're getting what we're teaching. We have another week (almost) before our first game. Still need to work in gut or middle running plays (9 year olds determining their playside gap on a "B gap" running play will be tough). Still need to work on "zone" running plays . Still need to work on pass blocking. 

So, where are we totally misguided? Any thoughts before we get too far along? 

This post was modified 3 months ago by Youthballee

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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @youthballee

So, where are we totally misguided? Any thoughts before we get too far along? 

Misguided? No. I respect anyone who takes on the task of teaching a "complicated" scheme to a group of kids. What some see as a challenge with younger kids, I see as an advantage if you know how to leverage it. Younger kids (7-9) will typically do exactly as you say. The challenge is saying exactly what you mean the first time. I taught GOB to 2nd and 3rd graders. Were we perfect? Absolutely not, but we made it work.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @youthballee

Long thread here, but I'm back to teaching the youngest tackle kids in our program. They're eight and nine. Couple still seven. 

We're teaching the o- line "GOB". Gap, On, Backer. 

--I coached 7-9's for 5 years.  I would not teach G/O/B.  One reason has to do with the scheme itself, as it applies to the youth level.  If the defensive line sets up "ON" your o-linemen, you now have a base-blocking scheme.  Might as well teach "block whoever's in front of you."  Secondly, if you have linemen who get to their third progression ("Backer") they are almost always at a severe disadvantage trying to block 2nd Level.  Your youth linemen simply aren't nearly as good an athlete as your opponent's Linebackers, so it's a terrible mismatch.  In addition, when your linemen leave the first level for the second level they can leave gaps in your o-line for defensive penetration.

They wouldn't understand "blocking down", if we told them too. 

--That's why we call it "Inside" blocking.  I stand in front of each lineman asking them whether I am outside, on, or inside of them.  Then I ask them "Do you block me now?" (Kinda like the cell phone commercial, "Can you hear me now?")  Our group (10U) seems to understand the concept of the down block.  I know that your group is younger, so I would only teach one block and run that until your group has become proficient at it.  For us, that's the down block.

Still need to work on "zone" running plays . Still need to work on pass blocking. 

So, where are we totally misguided? Any thoughts before we get too far along? 

Zone and pass blocking?  Yes, you are totally misguided.  Not because those schemes can't be taught but because you are adding schemes that are unlike the G/O/B you are trying to teach.  Having the time to teach one concept successfully is challenging enough, but now you're really risking confusing them.  Zone is asking them to "recognize and identify."  You must be out of your mind.  Pass blocking?  Why spend any time on something that's likely to give you so little bang for your buck (at that age)?  However, if you want to go down that rabbit hole....Our Double Wing pass block scheme in high school was identical to our run game, with one exception: don't go down field.  So the teach was exactly the same as blocking run on playside and pulling/hinge on backside.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @youthballee

Long thread here, but I'm back to teaching the youngest tackle kids in our program. They're eight and nine. Couple still seven. 

We're teaching the o- line "GOB". Gap, On, Backer. 

1) GAP - Block the dude in your PLAYSIDE gap. If there isn't anyone there.....

2) ON - Block the dude lined up ON you. If there isn't anyone there.....

3) BACKER - Go get a backer. Hopefully they run into the one who may be blitzing their gap. 

.........

Still need to work on "zone" running plays . Still need to work on pass blocking.

Keep it simple for the pass blocking.  Just keep your GO, forget the B, designate a play side, and have a back pick up the back side end.

Why teach both GOB and zone?  If you were going to teach zone, GOB would be superfluous.  Of course GOB is also easier, so I'd recommend skipping zone instead.


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terrypjohnson
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@youthballee - I understand where you're coming from. You're trying to simplify it to where anyone could understand. And -- as the coaches out here will tell you -- I get just as frustrated as you did that people don't coach the line. I wish I had a nickel for every time I ranted out here about the line not being in the huddle. Beers and wings would be on me 🙂

If I read your post right, it sounds like you want to implement GOD blocking, but you're not sure the kids would understand it -- an accurate assessment based on the information you provided. I would teach it the same way you are, but would change bullet point three to say "block the guy in front of the guy next to you". That worked for me with my younger 8U teams, when we used GOD.

As for GOB, I've never tried it. We saw a lot of 5-3 / 4-4 stack looks and honestly, our OT's couldn't get to the LB's in time.

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Posted by: @youthballee

Long thread here, but I'm back to teaching the youngest tackle kids in our program. They're eight and nine. Couple still seven. 

We're teaching the o- line "GOB". Gap, On, Backer. 

1) GAP - Block the dude in your PLAYSIDE gap. If there isn't anyone there.....

2) ON - Block the dude lined up ON you. If there isn't anyone there.....

3) BACKER - Go get a backer. Hopefully they run into the one who may be blitzing their gap. 

We also rarely block the back side DE. He's gotta be superman to get around our tackle and catch a jet or boot or whatever we do play side. 

Week one or so, we'll be vulnerable to twists and delayed blitzes, but having been around this league for nine years, we'll see very little of that until maybe week four.

Our whole o-line (and d-line) are returning starters from when they were eight last year. One small problem is, there was nearly no o-line (or d-line) teaching last year with the kids who are in their second year in this age group. The o-linemen weren't even in the huddle for play calls. They don't understand gaps (on O or D). They don't understand "play side" or "back side". They wouldn't understand "blocking down", if we told them too. 

They're getting what we're teaching. We have another week (almost) before our first game. Still need to work in gut or middle running plays (9 year olds determining their playside gap on a "B gap" running play will be tough). Still need to work on "zone" running plays . Still need to work on pass blocking. 

So, where are we totally misguided? Any thoughts before we get too far along? 

Have you looked into sever angle blocking?  I've used it for gap and "zone". If they can visualize a line they can block. 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @bob-goodman

Why teach both GOB and zone?  If you were going to teach zone, GOB would be superfluous.  Of course GOB is also easier, so I'd recommend skipping zone instead.

Shows you how much I know. To me, GOB was the basis of zone blocking. Mahonz published a zone blocking manual where each lineman determined if he was covered or not. If not, he combo'd with his buddy. Simple enough.

A few years later, I was coaching o-line from him and really dug into the concept. I came to the conclusion that zone blocking was simply "Gap, On, Combo".  Inside zone - "inside gap, Man On, Combo". Outside zone - "Playside gap, Man on, Combo".

Because we were in mega splits, I did away with the combo because double teams are death to mega splits. Eventually, I realized that some kids are going to struggle vs some d-linemen, so I developed a "Help" call where an uncovered buddy would give just as much help as his buddy needed, but still had to do his job (block a LB). 

I am 100% open to the idea that I was completely wrong on this, but hey, it worked for us for many years.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @terrypjohnson

I wish I had a nickel for every time I ranted out here about the line not being in the huddle. Beers and wings would be on me 🙂

I know what you're saying, but Mahonz had a few offenses where only the backs huddled. I made the line calls from the sideline. Most of the time, we don't huddle anyone. Doesn't mean the line doesn't know what's going on.

But yes, there are many teams who "base block" (whatever the heck that means) everything regardless of the play. That makes me scratch my head as well.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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terrypjohnson
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@gumby_in_co - I would've been cool with that arrangement. My objection was that no one other than the backs -- including me -- knew that the play was. "Well, they should just know who to block..."

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @terrypjohnson

 "Well, they should just know who to block..."

I strongly suspect the backs are not involved in the blocking scheme.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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mahonz
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @terrypjohnson

I wish I had a nickel for every time I ranted out here about the line not being in the huddle. Beers and wings would be on me 🙂

I know what you're saying, but Mahonz had a few offenses where only the backs huddled. I made the line calls from the sideline. Most of the time, we don't huddle anyone. Doesn't mean the line doesn't know what's going on.

But yes, there are many teams who "base block" (whatever the heck that means) everything regardless of the play. That makes me scratch my head as well.

Funny story on how leaving the OL on the LOS started. First grade football...8 man....and the huddle is pure mayhem. We even ended up with an opposing player in our huddle during games more than once. 😎  So Keenan decided to huddle up 4 ( 3 backs and any SE)  and leave three interior OLM plus the TE on the LOS. This also gave them time to dial up a good alignment. The blocking was simple. Reverse SAB L or R or Wedge. The kids were doing the Light on Right sock thing with team colors so he used their sock color for direction ....all the OLM had to do was look at their socks. Wedge was a color not present. 

He would yell out a color to the OLM + TE....then he would tell the TE Right or Left alignment..... then call his play in the simplified huddle. 

Worked wonders and kept the tequila shooters for the coaches to a minimum. Which as you know is a requirement teaching Super Smurfs anything. 🤣

Its also where we decided to go full 2 point stances. Any coach that can get first graders to create a 5+ man blocking surface and keep it  legal for 4 quarters using 3 point stances is a genius that loves to waste valuable practice time. The 2 point fixed EVERYTHING. Then we kept it because it was just better for everything technical as the kids got older and never looked back. 

Leaving the OLM on the LOS has one major positive and one major negative. The positive is they can stink eye the DLM that are not used to getting stink eyed for 10 seconds every play. The negative is there are times the players need to look into one another eyes for some...reassurance. One of the biggest negatives for going no huddle. Sometimes the huddle is a much needed place for bonding during a game...even if its just done with the eyes. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @bob-goodman

Why teach both GOB and zone?  If you were going to teach zone, GOB would be superfluous.  Of course GOB is also easier, so I'd recommend skipping zone instead.

Shows you how much I know. To me, GOB was the basis of zone blocking. Mahonz published a zone blocking manual where each lineman determined if he was covered or not. If not, he combo'd with his buddy. Simple enough.

A few years later, I was coaching o-line from him and really dug into the concept. I came to the conclusion that zone blocking was simply "Gap, On, Combo".  Inside zone - "inside gap, Man On, Combo". Outside zone - "Playside gap, Man on, Combo".

Either way, zone blocking entails looking at 2 gaps, while GOB requires looking at only 1.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @bob-goodman

Either way, zone blocking entails looking at 2 gaps, while GOB requires looking at only 1.

Not the way I coached it, but as I said, I could have had it completely wrong. I still here guys describe it as "you're not blocking an man, but an area". Never made sense to me because I've never seen an area make a tackle.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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