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Coach Kyle2
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February 16, 2020 2:56 pm  

This linked video: Okay, so I can't post links for some reason.... the title of the youtube video is: 

 

Instructional Film on How to Play American Football circa 1940

I want the double team blocks that they do at 0:16. It seems like a nightmare with play calling since the defense can line up in all sorts of crazy stuff, and at the youth level those defensive alignments are probably unplanned randomness. Is there some systematic way to get a double team blocks on both sides of the hole you want to run to?

I assume you'd want to call the hole after the defense has set up. Then I guess You'd just teach your lineman how to scoop and double team like that. 

This topic was modified 6 months ago 3 times by Coach Kyle2

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gumby_in_co
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February 16, 2020 3:22 pm  

I look at it from the opposite direction. If it's double teams I want, then I tech the GOD rule, except instead of "Gap On Down", I teach "Gap On Double". Then, I would call the landmark from the sideline once the defense is aligned. It's one of the reasons we don't huddle our o-line. We want to get a good, long look at what the D is doing. So instead of trying to create bubbles with uncooperative defenses, identify the natural bubbles and exploit them.

What I've been playing with lately is a way for offensive linemen to identify that "Hey! We should really run to me right now!" based on what he sees. I don't do double teams for reasons I've gone into before and won't get into now. I prefer my uncovered linemen to climb, but it's the same concept. Your uncovered linemen will double team. If the defense lines up in such a stupid alignment that you have 2 double teams right next to each other . . . you might want to have a hot call to exploit that. 

But to pin your hopes on an opponent giving you that probably isn't wise. 

The trade off of double teams is unblocked linebackers. So you either have to pull from somewhere or send blocking backs behind the double teams.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Coach Kyle2
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February 16, 2020 4:23 pm  

@gumby_in_co

I've been watching a lot of film, and I am noticing a pattern. Defenses only have three options. They can either have down lineman, blitzing linebackers, or reading linebackers. I also notice that teams have tendencies. Sometimes they blitz a lot. This is oddly ineffective for them almost all of the time. I never see a blitzing linebacker breaking through some open gap to make a backfield tackle. It's probably because of how tight my splits typically are. However, what is consistently effective is a defensive lineman who pushes back on the offensive lineman's block. It's like they just come undone at just the right moment to make a play. However, this NEVER happens if they're double teamed well. What happens if they're double teamed is that they get driven back, and the spot they were becomes a large hole. Now some times this doesn't work because your lineman are physically out matched, but that is a different issue than scheme. So that leaves reading line backers. These guys are 100% talent, and if they're good they're good, but a lot just stand still. Then they take on the lead blocker and stop the play like a defensive lineman would stop the play, by scraping towards the back. What I also notice though is that downfield blocking is terribly inconsistent. You'll watch some pulling lineman or back run through the hole properly only to barely miss the defender. Obviously you could coach this up and make it better, but I think it would be cheaper to get super consistent double teams.

Finally, I've seen some teams really commit to double team blocking in the past. Specifically I remember scrimmage where they would double team our defensive lineman 10 yards down the field... it was horrifying to watch. 

 

By the way, I like what you're saying with the Gap on double. Sounds like a great way to get what I'm looking for. Then you just call the gap with a bubble.

 

This post was modified 6 months ago by Coach Kyle2

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CoachDP
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February 17, 2020 2:48 am  
Posted by: @coach-kyle2

Is there some systematic way to get a double team blocks on both sides of the hole you want to run to?

I assume you'd want to call the hole after the defense has set up.

I'd offer a suggestion if I could understand what you're asking.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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ZACH
 ZACH
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February 17, 2020 8:28 am  

If you can block 1v1 it doesn't matter what they give you, you'll be successful. 

 

What I have witnessed in my org

Coach loses game due to "blocking" 

Coach institutes double teams

Coach loses game due to "blocking"

 

So buyer beware, while a good tool a double or combo can be. If you can't block 1v1 you're in for a bumpy ride

 

 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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gumby_in_co
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February 17, 2020 4:00 pm  

@coach-kyle2

All perfectly valid arguments in favor of double teams. I'm not one to disparage double teams. I just know they don't work within the framework of what we try to do. 

When our DL gets doubled, I look at it as an opportunity. They are using 2 guys against my 1 and I already started with a 1 to 2 man advantage. I start off by teaching a kid that as soon as he sees or feels a double team, to hit the dirt and grab grass. When my guy fails to do that (which is often), I have him crab/submarine/cut. When he fails to do that (or just gets tired of doing it), I replace him for awhile.

We generally do well against down linemen. Our team has a weird personality. A kid who kills it in practice falls apart in a game. Then, I sub a kid who didn't practice very well so I can coach up the first kid. Sub kills it, so I leave him in. Kid who killed it last week falls apart this week. A kid who is consistent 4 weeks an a row . . . I turn my back on him and he falls apart. Once per season, they all get their crap together and we seem unstoppable, even with sub par RBs. It's a constant game of Whack a Mole for me.

We see a lot of blitzing due to our splits. With good backs, we can really make them look stupid. Unfortunately, the last 2 seasons we haven't had good backs. We have a 2 pronged approach to fix this. One, invest time into developing them athletically. Two, try to help them with a scheme that is more forgiving to their limitations.

We tend to do really well against "reading" linebackers. If they stand still for 2 seconds, we usually have a body on them. 

Most teams in our league have 1 stud LB. We try to put our best back on him. We play Whack a Mole with blocking backs as well, so our "best" blocking back changes day to day.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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February 17, 2020 6:23 pm  

This is a simple problem in arithmetic plus geometry.  You want to double team 2 opponents, you need 4 players in the vicinity.  Unless your opponent leaves a bubble in their DL that goes 2 gaps, you'll need to use a blocking back.

In my preferred system, if I want to run the middle against a pair of 2 techs or a 2 tech on one side and a 1 tech on the other, and double team both (rather than trapping one), one of them gets blocked by the snapper and a guard, and the other by a guard and the quarterback.  At another hole, it might be the motioning wing who's the blocking back.  Then it's a choice of whether there's a lead back blocking or a back faking.


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Coach Kyle2
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February 17, 2020 10:17 pm  

@gumby_in_co

One of the things I saw in the film I was reviewing was that sometimes we get a crushing block on the edge. A nice double team formed, and we blew them back. Other times a defender shoots through a double team and into our backfield, and they're all the same players in the same game. 

It's hard to diagnoses, so I guess I'm just agreeing and commiserating with you. It's impressive that you could take the time to notice and correct something like that mid-game though. I'm typically so focused on the millions of things I'm focusing on.

 


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Coach Kyle2
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February 17, 2020 10:24 pm  

@bob-goodman Why do you need a 2 gap bubble? The video didn't have a 2 gap bubble.

 


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Bob Goodman
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February 18, 2020 8:47 am  
Posted by: @coach-kyle2

@bob-goodman Why do you need a 2 gap bubble? The video didn't have a 2 gap bubble.

Probably we're measuring them differently.  Say you have defenders in the gaps.  At one gap you have a double team.  You can't have one at the next gap using adjacent OL alone, so the next gap a defender could be in would be the second gap over.  So a distance of 2 gaps from one defender to the next.

If the defenders are "on", then again 2 gaps between them.


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Dusty Ol Fart
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February 18, 2020 10:26 am  

Wow talk about overthinking......

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Coach Kyle2
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February 18, 2020 1:16 pm  

@bob-goodman I think I get what you're saying. The bubble itself isn't two gaps. You need a bubble that is created by defenders being two gaps apart from each other.

Do you think players being in 0, 2, 4, or 6 techs is a good reason not to attempt a double team? Earlier you mentioned two 2-techs. Obviously the guards could reach block those 2 techs and the tackles could come in for the double team. It sounds like you would rather have a center and guard double team, and a back form the double team. Either way, how do you get 10 year olds to do it consistently?

 


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CoachDP
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February 18, 2020 1:47 pm  
Posted by: @coach-kyle2

Do you think players being in 0, 2, 4, or 6 techs is a good reason not to attempt a double team?

--Whether you're doubling even or odd-numbered techniques, one is not more difficult than the other.

Either way, how do you get 10 year olds to do it consistently?

--Not sure what you're asking.  Are you asking about their ability to understand their assignments without using a convoluted blocking scheme?  Or, are you asking how to get 10-year-olds to be able to block a defender consistently well?

--Dave

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Coach Kyle2
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February 18, 2020 2:22 pm  

@coachdp one is not more difficult than the other.

Why not? One involves a reach block, right? So it ought to be harder than a player in their gap, which sets up the angles for you automatically. 

 

Not sure what you're asking.

I want to know how to consistently get double teams without creating some convoluted explanation. I'm worried about the kids understanding it. This is why I don't like zone blocking very much. I don't understand the jargon, and it always seems like every explanation is written up against specific defenses. I want some sort of rule that always works no matter what the situation is. For example, if during our cadence the defensive lineman change their gaps, I want them to understand in a split second who they're going to block. I always see people writing stuff on a whiteboard and it seems so obvious who they would get, but you don't get a bird's eye view when you're standing on the line.

 


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mahonz
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February 18, 2020 3:03 pm  
Posted by: @coach-kyle2

I want to know how to consistently get double teams without creating some convoluted explanation. I'm worried about the kids understanding it. This is why I don't like zone blocking very much. I don't understand the jargon, and it always seems like every explanation is written up against specific defenses. I want some sort of rule that always works no matter what the situation is. For example, if during our cadence the defensive lineman change their gaps, I want them to understand in a split second who they're going to block. I always see people writing stuff on a whiteboard and it seems so obvious who they would get, but you don't get a bird's eye view when you're standing on the line.

Truly the only way to consistently get first level double teams is to teach zone blocking. Acronym rules wont do that for you vs the heavy fronts. Neither does zone to a point but it does do a better job on how the backside blocks so you should end up with one more combo block....generally speaking. If you want to teach a system whereas the kids will indeed do a better job vs all fronts.....figure out what you dont understand about zone blocking. You wont regret it. Talking to Joe is always a good start. Zach as well. Me...I have been out of the loop on that a bit to long. 

This post was modified 6 months ago by mahonz

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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