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Revisiting SAB

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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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A kid I used to coach got his first OC job at the org I used to run, coached with him last year in the JR high team great kid, very smart.  Small talk starts around building his system.  We started small, his age group is 10/11.  He wants to run zone and gap like we did with jr high from pistol. 

 

I said zone is probably not the play considering you can't coach the line and the dad helpers probably can't either.  Kid convo he says "what if we get them to run in tracks, would that help?", Then the SAB talk started. 

 

Still in very early stages however it looks like he's falling in love with the SAB running it playside for his straight ahead "zone" runs with different rb aiming points and SAB down for his gap/power/counter plays. 

 

I obviously told him to try and focus on one scheme and let that be his foundation.  

 

Long story short, does anyone even run SAB anymore?  Does anyone have experience running it any other way but gao scheme? Kinda curious myself now.

 

Stay warm and well fed friends!

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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We don’t downblock at MCHS, but we downblocked in the Double Wing on certain plays, or when we faced a tight or TNT front.

—Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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terrypjohnson
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The kids I coach are younger (8U) than your age group, but I use mostly SAB blocking. It worked well for us against the 6-2, which we saw a lot of this season. I also used "X" and "Part" variants to help get the matchups I wanted on B Gap runs.

Coach Terry

 

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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I consider SAB a poor mans zone. So if he starts with SAB, in time he might progress to zone. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Posted by: @mahonz

I consider SAB a poor mans zone. So if he starts with SAB, in time he might progress to zone. 

Hope so, ocs have a tendancy to love a scheme but can't teach anyone how to block it smh .  Then bitch they don't have enough good linemen

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @bucksweep58

Hope so, ocs have a tendancy to love a scheme but can't teach anyone how to block it smh .  Then bitch they don't have enough good linemen

That's why so many won't pull.  They can't find a lineman who "knows how." 😡 

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
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Posted by: @bucksweep58

 

Long story short, does anyone even run SAB anymore?  Does anyone have experience running it any other way but gao scheme? Kinda curious myself now.

 

TKO is my base scheme for power, counter, and trap.  I teach it with the man's shoulder to your inside as your target.  Get shoulder to shoulder with that target as quick as possible.  Never go around your target.  Help that man inside if needed.  We can add a help call if the man outside of you needs help and you are free to give it.  It's a lot easier teach than SAB.

 

I used SAB, when I was O-line coach at a school in TN, with everyone on tracks at the same angle.  The concept is simple but it is a very hard teach.  The whole line has to be in sync and getting off the ball together and at the same angle.  One guy slow off the line or one guy whose 30 degrees is 45 degrees will allow big holes and cause big trouble.  It can be great but the timing and geometry has to be right or you are better off teaching the Gap-Down-Backer rule.

This post was modified 4 months ago 2 times by 32wedge

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COACHDT
(@hawk2018)
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What do you guys teach as the first step on TKO or SAB?  I have been watching some old clinics and found a coach who  used the first step behind like the wedge(see attached). I have not taught it this way, but it seems like it would simplify it since I teach the wedge already.  


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terrypjohnson
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Posted by: @hawk2018

What do you guys teach as the first step on TKO or SAB?  I have been watching some old clinics and found a coach who  used the first step behind like the wedge(see attached). I have not taught it this way, but it seems like it would simplify it since I teach the wedge already.  

What would be the down side to this approach?

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @terrypjohnson

What would be the down side to this approach?

Downside:  It makes your playside line shorter (because of the overlapping), which can be an issue if you're wanting their Linebacker to either get caught up in the wash OR have to jump over the bubble.  Since it appears that there's some fitment involved on the o-line, it could take more reps/time to teach if you're a novice to that approach.  

I'd be more interested in learning what the pros of this approach are.  When we down block, I want our playside to use the defender's momentum against him, which is simple to do when fitting the defender from the side.  The approach in the photo appears to me like the playside blockers would lose that advantage because they are behind another offensive lineman.  I've not seen this approach used for down blocking, but I have seen this approach used in teaching double teams.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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We run two types of Wedges:

Power Wedge, which is nothing more than a 3-way triple team by the Center and Guards against a 0-Technique.  We do not overlap bodies or interlock legs.

Wedge, which is my Center, Guards, Tackles and Ends overlapping each other, pushing with both hands against the outside hip of the man to their inside while interlocking the legs.  We use this against an even front, where we are wedging on our Center (and not a defender).

In down blocking,  we are looking to get our body into the side of a defender and wash him down by using his momentum against him.  In the photo, I don't see how the o-linemen can get into the body of a defender as long as they are positioned behind an overlapping blocker.  So I don't really understand the value or reasoning for down blocking this way.  It looks similar to how we teach Wedge when we are facing an even front.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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terrypjohnson
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Posted by: @coachdp

Downside:  It makes your playside line shorter (because of the overlapping), which can be an issue if you're wanting their Linebacker to either get caught up in the wash OR have to jump over the bubble. 

That would eliminate any reason that I had to do it. The reason Power and Spin Counter were effective is because the LB's took a step forward and/or in the wrong direction and then got caught in the wash.

Thank you for the insight!!

Coach Terry

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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tiger46
(@tiger46)
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It seems like stepping behind the OL to your inside would make SAB blocking more difficult- if not nearly impossible. I've never seen it taught that way, either.  We teach SAB as stepping in front of the inside OL.  The outside OL is turning his shoulders inside and sort of throwing his outside arm up into a blocking surface on the second step. I guess is looks almost like the opposite of a pulling OL's bucket step.

IDK, but if your OL can learn to GOD and cross block they should be able to learn to SAB block, also. The steps are pretty much the same except for the 'On' block.

 

“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. ”  ― Frederick Douglass


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Coyote
(@coyote)
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Coach,

We’re a buck & belly wing T team. We’re still putting kids on track and pulling G’s.   We draft so we’ve got some late rounders among our Oline.   We put the weaker OL at OT, using 30 degree angle first step.   Our TE / WB as well when blocking.   We’re a 3rd& 4th grade team.  Takes a couple weeks to get them to get tracking to second level if no one shows, but we only practice twice a week.  

We draft early for our guards it’s a commitment.   If your protege is committed  to coaching the OL he should enjoy the results 

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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coachgye
(@coachgye)
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@coachdp

Do you have a diagram of the power wedge play?


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