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Coach Kyle
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How do you handle these situations in SAB? First, say you have a player in every single gap from C to C. Do you just down block? Or is the SAB mean that you block beyond your own gap?

 

Second, suppose that you have a chance for a double team. My instinct is to tell the kids to have one guy on the left side, and another on the right side, and to use a double team blocking technique. However, I don’t see coaches teaching double teams with the SAB. I see them pretty much just saying that you’re on a track, and you form a wall. While that’s simple and it would pick up blitzes, you’d think it would be more efficient to coach them to form up on the defenders.

 

Also, suppose that we're shoulder blocking. Do you suppose that we should use the head across method rather than head on near side?

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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gumby_in_co
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I teach TKO. Learned it from Jack and JJ. It was the next evolution of SAB blocking and was a solution to having 2 linemen next to each other with different speed and power  . . . or having a blocker with no one in his track who would simply run his track until he hit the sideline.  Either situation caused gaps in the line that were easily exploited by defenders, especially linebackers.

TKO teaches the C to form the base of a wall with his first two steps. Each lineman outside of him will drive to their landmark (inside buddy's outside shoulder), then buzz feet.  Crush anyone who is in your track and NEVER let anyone cross your face to the inside. Never chase a defender who decides to stunt outside. He's now someone else's problem.

We see kids do exactly as you describe. They either block straight ahead because there's a man head up on them, or they even step outside because . . . I don't know. I have a theory that some kids decide they just don't like a particular defender. Doesn't matter. It is a disaster for your TKO wall.  So to answer your question, "No". Do not tell a lineman to block out or even head up. Get in your track and sprint to your landmark.

Double teams and even triple teams will occur when a defender ends up in 3 guys' tracks, or when an outside blocker like a T or TE makes it to their landmark. But don't go looking for double teams. Totally unnecessary. The beauty of TKO is the wall and its simplicity. Simple encourages aggression. See the two screen shots below, taken about a second apart.

If you are shoulder blocking, then yes. Head across is vital in TKO. Just my experience, but it's been a long time since I've taught a shoulder block.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @coach-kyle

How do you handle these situations in SAB? First, say you have a player in every single gap from C to C. Do you just down block? Or is the SAB mean that you block beyond your own gap?

--Each blocker's responsibility is to simply block/close off their inside gap.  How you achieve that is up for discussion.

Second, suppose that you have a chance for a double team. My instinct is to tell the kids to have one guy on the left side, and another on the right side, and to use a double team blocking technique. However, I don’t see coaches teaching double teams with the SAB.

--That's because the only double teams that occur in SAB are inadvertent.  If you want double teams, don't teach SAB.

I see them pretty much just saying that you’re on a track, and you form a wall. While that’s simple and it would pick up blitzes, you’d think it would be more efficient to coach them to form up on the defenders.

--Not sure what you mean by "form up on the defenders."  Or by "more efficient."  SAB is just as physical as rule blocking, or coaching double teams.

Also, suppose that we're shoulder blocking. Do you suppose that we should use the head across method rather than head on near side?

--No idea.  I don't teach shoulder blocking.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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J. Potter (seabass)
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Please don’t teach your kids to shoulder block. It will take some poor freshman coach a full season to unteach that shit. Then his JV coach (he’ll definitely be playing JV if he can’t block with his hands) will have to start the project all over again because the kid will revert back to it as soon s he’s uncomfortable. 


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @seabass

Please don’t teach your kids to shoulder block. It will take some poor freshman coach a full season to unteach that shit. Then his JV coach (he’ll definitely be playing JV if he can’t block with his hands) will have to start the project all over again because the kid will revert back to it as soon s he’s uncomfortable. 

Interesting because I've been teaching hands blocking for years and I got the same criticism because 2 of the local high schools teach shoulder blocking.  

Honestly, I have never once . . . ever considered what a high school coach wants or doesn't want when deciding on what or how to coach. In a recent post, I pointed out that Mahonz and I coached 20 kids who appeared on the all-conference list. They certainly didn't play JV.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@gumby_in_co 

 

I’m sure there are a few schools around the country that still shoulder block but most kids are going to be required to block with their hands. A shoulder blocker can be a really hard habit to break, especially if a kid has been successful doing it.

If the vast majority of your kids are headed to a school that shoulder blocks then you might be giving them a leg up by teaching that. Most kids won’t benefit from that and have to start over. 

We have a 6’5” 250# freshman who is an extremely gifted athlete. He’s physically ready to play varsity football right now but he’s been allowed to block with his shoulder instead of his hands. We’ll break him of it eventually but he could have taken some varsity snaps this year. That could have been a huge benefit to his career. 

In today’s game blocking with hands for an OL is fundamental. 

Somewhere in Conn. Tito is cussing me?

 

 

 


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gumby_in_co
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@seabass

We feed 4 different high schools on a regular basis. Up to twice that many when you count the kids who come from outlying areas. I do not know every technique that is being taught at each of those high schools. Nor do I care.

Again, what the HS coaches around me are doing or not doing has zero influence in what I teach or don't teach. We teach them a love of the game that will help them get through the dozens of times a year that they think about quitting.

Our former OT is 6'5, 310. Just de-committed from Nevada and committed to CSU (NV HC Jay Norvell recruited him at NV, then took the job at CSU). 1st team All Conference, 2nd team All State. 3 year starter.  The first time he ever got in a 3 point stance was his first practice as a Freshman. I'm sure his coaching staff was cursing us for not "getting him ready for HS". I could care less. His HS coach retired after his junior season, so he had to learn a new guy's systems/techniques/culture as a senior. 

In fact, I'm going away from hands blocking next year and going to X-man blocking. No HS coach that I'm aware of teaches that besides Dave Potter.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @seabass

Somewhere in Conn. Tito is cussing me?

Tito is cussing all of us.  All of the time.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Coach Kyle
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@seabass I disagree. Nobody should be obligated to prepare their football players for any team other than the team they're on. Likewise, I don't expect the flag coach to be teaching their kids with the specific intention of fitting into my scheme. 

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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J. Potter (seabass)
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I don't think anybody should be obligated to do anything. I would certainly NEVER change my scheme for anyone else. When I was coaching youth football we made our decisions based on what was best for the kid's and our team at the present time. However, we always kept the kid's future in mind and tried to do things that would prepare them to play HS football. Most of our kid's were going many different directions, as far as where they would attend HS.

When I first joined this site I asked Joe if there was anything I could do as a youth coach to give our guys an advantage when they moved on. His response was, "teach them to block and tackle" because that will give the kid's the best shot at present and future success. I never forgot that and he was 100% right! 

My original statement was a bad one. You shouldn't do things in mind of the next coach. You should do things in mind of the player and his development...whenever possible or practical.

There is a reason using your hands to block used to be illegal. Now using your hands to block is legal...why not use that advantage?


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mahonz
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Isn't USA Football now attacking shoulder blocking as another one of their unsafe demons? . 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@mahonz 

 

Could be...sounds like their MO but I haven't seen any of their stuff in a few years.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @seabass

There is a reason using your hands to block used to be illegal. Now using your hands to block is legal...why not use that advantage?

Of course it's a tool you should have to your advantage.  Same as legalizing the forward pass provided an advantage in the offense's tool box.

But if, as I do, you want to have various forms of blocking, including but not limited to hands blocking -- because there are other forms that are more advantageous in some circumstances, just as you don't need a forward pass on every play -- then teaching hands blocking comes with a cost for beginners: not as easy to remember to keep a low pad level with hands as with shoulders.  It's easy enough to keep a low pad level, but it's harder not to slip out of that form when they know hands blocking.  And the reminders aren't all they're cracked up to be.

As I analyze the drills we've been using with a chute, seems to me the coaches are having the players take an unrealistically large number of steps into contact.  The way the chute is built, its length is such that to get realistic firing-out with children would require them to start within the chute, rather than at its entrance.  The other coaches (and I was probably guilty of this too, unthinkingly) thought it was all to the good, seeing the players take several steps thru the chute, ah, they're staying low thru multiple steps, that'll help on a pull assignment!  But when I think about where staying low while pulling fits in the scheme of priorities, I realize it'd be better to have the kids take a realistic number of steps into contact for most assignments.  And DumCoach would point out that for the recess many coaches now have for the OL, that number is 1!


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Dimson
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You should look in to Coach Cox's Wash and IOL blocking scheme. It is what I am going to use the next time I have say in how we block our plays. 


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Coach Kyle
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@seabass 

Why don’t I want that advantage? I think there isn’t as much of an advantage as you’d think. When I taught shoulder blocking before it seemed to click pretty well with the kids. So I don’t see it as losing an advantage. Furthermore, the hands blocking isn’t an advantage if you want to do a lot of down blocking. Hands blocking is only an advantage in my mind if the man is right in front of them. If the man is head up, the o-line can get their hands into the chest plate of the d-lineman. But if the man is down, then a shoulder block just fits much better. I want to do a lot of angle blocks, and shoulder blocking is the best method in my opinion to do that.

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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