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JustPlay
(@rjbthor)
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Our league is proposing increasing our non x weight limits 10 more pounds. This would mean an increase of 20 lbs in 2 years. Allowing larger players to carry the ball. The average non x player is about 126 lbs across the league. This proposal would mean a 155 lb player can run the ball. With a 29lb difference in weight does this pose a safety risk? If not Why have an X man rule to begin with?

My son is a 127 lb qb/mlb. He can tackle big kids just fine. However I heard from 4 parents who will pull their player or try to take them to a lower age group based on weight. Any Coach out there have any experience with this? Do I need to be concerned? How light is to light?

If we get in to the science of mass x velocity = force  is does.
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=99061&page=1

Please give me your 2 cents.

nothing replaces effort. nothing replaces the mind. One with out the other is a waste of time.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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JP

Been thru this a few times in the past. I have never coached in a League that wasn't Independent unlimited weight with a backfield limitation at most levels. Every League I have coached in has also been single grade based. So that does make a difference in the discussion.

My current League has never had restrictions for the 8th grade and are dropping the restrictions for 7th grade this Season. This is a rather large League that did an exit poll for all 5K Members about 10 years ago asking if they would prefer to keep the backfield limitations or drop them at all levels. They voted 90% to keep the limitations.

This told the League that the parents would be concerned if any kid could carry the football even though any kid can play TE or SE and catch a pass. So having backfield limitations is good for business.

Raising the weight limits 20 pounds in two years is a HUGE jump and I can see where some parents would be concerned. They get used to one thing and then its a lot of change and probably too fast.

How does your League go about Rule changes? If its the Board made up of coaches then they should probably cool their jets if you are already getting negative feedback. If you are getting it then so is everyone else.

My experience with coaches exclusively creating the Rules is sometimes we do not appreciate the market and want what we want. Youth football exists to serve the community...not a bunch of Dads that are wannbe be Bilichiks. So you have to keep things real.

Here are our limitations for this upcoming Season as a comparison. We do have on 20 pound jump but that is after parents are hoked on football.  No one player can ever play up or down. They are very strict about this-

2nd grade, 75 lbs.
3rd grade, 85 lbs.
4th grade, 95 lbs.
5th grade, 105 lbs.
6th grade, 125 lbs.
7th grade Juniors have no backfield weight limitations.
8th grade Seniors have no backfield weight limitations.

My Spring team are 7th graders. They have a 140 pound backfield limitation. The smallest kid is 72 pounds and the largest is 225. Our backfield is 137, 137, 136,136, 135, 128 and 108 so basically the same size as the LB's and DB's and probably the way the parents prefer things too be even though both you and I know that it really makes no difference for the older kids who have played this game for years....BUT....we dont matter.

The parents tend to forget about the 160 pound TE's and SE's catching footballs so there is that too. Not sure how your League addresses this but its a ploy I have lived by. I have had some HUGE TE's that catch and run very well and so have some of my opponents. Those are the players to fear in unlimited weight football with backfield limitations.

At the end of the day regardless of weight....the bigs will generally block for the smaller fast Dudes on Offense. That is just how football works. The difference is what can happen on the Defense but parents dont look at things like that. They only imagine 180 pound RB's running over their precious little snowflakes when the reality is a 180 pound MIKE is now very possible. That kid is going to F people up....not the RB. 

My take...its a fine line.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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JP

Been thru this a few times in the past. I have never coached in a League that wasn't Independent unlimited weight with a backfield limitation at most levels. Every League I have coached in has also been single grade based. So that does make a difference in the discussion.

My current League has never had restrictions for the 8th grade and are dropping the restrictions for 7th grade this Season. This is a rather large League that did an exit poll for all 5K Members about 10 years ago asking if they would prefer to keep the backfield limitations or drop them at all levels. They voted 90% to keep the limitations.

This told the League that the parents would be concerned if any kid could carry the football even though any kid can play TE or SE and catch a pass. So having backfield limitations is good for business.

Raising the weight limits 20 pounds in two years is a HUGE jump and I can see where some parents would be concerned. They get used to one thing and then its a lot of change and probably too fast.

How does your League go about Rule changes? If its the Board made up of coaches then they should probably cool their jets if you are already getting negative feedback. If you are getting it then so is everyone else.

My experience with coaches exclusively creating the Rules is sometimes we do not appreciate the market and want what we want. Youth football exists to serve the community...not a bunch of Dads that are wannbe be Bilichiks. So you have to keep things real.

Here are our limitations for this upcoming Season as a comparison. We do have on 20 pound jump but that is after parents are hoked on football.  No one player can ever play up or down. They are very strict about this-

2nd grade, 75 lbs.
3rd grade, 85 lbs.
4th grade, 95 lbs.
5th grade, 105 lbs.
6th grade, 125 lbs.
7th grade Juniors have no backfield weight limitations.
8th grade Seniors have no backfield weight limitations.

My Spring team are 7th graders. They have a 140 pound backfield limitation. The smallest kid is 72 pounds and the largest is 225. Our backfield is 137, 137, 136,136, 135, 128 and 108 so basically the same size as the LB's and DB's and probably the way the parents prefer things too be even though both you and I know that it really makes no difference for the older kids who have played this game for years....BUT....we dont matter.

The parents tend to forget about the 160 pound TE's and SE's catching footballs so there is that too. Not sure how your League addresses this but its a ploy I have lived by. I have had some HUGE TE's that catch and run very well and so have some of my opponents. Those are the players to fear in unlimited weight football with backfield limitations.

At the end of the day regardless of weight....the bigs will generally block for the smaller fast Dudes on Offense. That is just how football works. The difference is what can happen on the Defense but parents dont look at things like that. They only imagine 180 pound RB's running over their precious little snowflakes when the reality is a 180 pound MIKE is now very possible. That kid is going to F people up....not the RB. 

My take...its a fine line.

Your argument is perfect. And it drives me insane that they cannot see the insanity of their views. Nice post.

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patriotsfatboy1
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I have only coached in true unlimited leagues. Our backs can be any size.

I did not see any issues from a safety standpoint, but I could see issues from a parent standpoint. I believe we have smaller kids that won't come out due to fears of bigger players with the ball. However, I do think they would have those fears either way.

My son played LB at 105 in 8th grade against some big backs (170+) without any issue.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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I have always been a Pop Warner coach. I can honestly say that the stance they take on being weight as a safety concern is a load of horse shit. I have watched a bunch of unlimited weight games and they are probably as safe or safer than PW. The age differences is the issue, not the weight.


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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I coached in weight restricted league.  Our argument against was always, so limiting the back field to 150 (recently upped to 160) does what for you when the Linebackers dont have the same restriction?  Even if you argue for, what happens to these kids when they become freshmen?  Suddenly any "supposed" safety advantage (?) disappears! 

For the record. Even with the weight restrictions, our backfield rarely approached the top weight.

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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I coached in weight restricted league.  Our argument against was always, so limiting the back field to 150 (recently upped to 160) does what for you when the Linebackers dont have the same restriction?  Even if you argue for, what happens to these kids when they become freshmen?  Suddenly any "supposed" safety advantage (?) disappears! 

For the record. Even with the weight restrictions, our backfield rarely approached the top weight.

Your argument is spot on. Do they think they are helping kids by lying to them? Giving them a false life narrative?
That is the problem with youth sports amongst other things. Eventually kids figure out they have been lied to by the people who are supposedly looking out for their best interest.

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Bob Goodman
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This told the League that the parents would be concerned if any kid could carry the football even though any kid can play TE or SE and catch a pass.

Is the ball dead once they do?


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JustPlay
(@rjbthor)
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Topic starter  

So dont worry about it from a safety perspective? I am good with that. I just didnt have any answers for parents coming to me about this.
"Do they think they are helping kids by lying to them? Giving them a false life narrative?"
I am not sure what you are saying but if you are meaning by limiting weight we let Johnny think he is a good player, I think you are missing the point of playing.

Ok gents thanks for the feedback.

nothing replaces effort. nothing replaces the mind. One with out the other is a waste of time.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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Is the ball dead once they do?

No....live all the way

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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So dont worry about it from a safety perspective? I am good with that. I just didnt have any answers for parents coming to me about this.
"Do they think they are helping kids by lying to them? Giving them a false life narrative?"
I am not sure what you are saying but if you are meaning by limiting weight we let Johnny think he is a good player, I think you are missing the point of playing.

Ok gents thanks for the feedback.

Hey...what gives? You've always had the best avatar on the Forum but its seems to be an error icon now.

Manning beating Ware for the TD. Pure gold...and about as rare.  😛

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Test Account
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So dont worry about it from a safety perspective? I am good with that. I just didnt have any answers for parents coming to me about this.
"Do they think they are helping kids by lying to them? Giving them a false life narrative?"
I am not sure what you are saying but if you are meaning by limiting weight we let Johnny think he is a good player, I think you are missing the point of playing.

Ok gents thanks for the feedback.

listen. it is not good for kids to be bubble wrapped and totally inoculated from reality. That is social engineering that has real consequences. And I am more than ok with suggesting that teen violence is directly related.  Imagine that. violence caused by people.
Kids are more than able to deal with adversity, having their feelings hurt.  Football exist for that reason. Not only is their somebody bigger than you, but their is somebody bigger, faster, stronger than you and smarter than you. It is good for them to know that, and sooner the better.
None of the crap rules that currently run youth sports are part of being an adult. Our role as adults is to prepare kids to be adults. Cannot do that by protecting from every consequence imaginable.

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patriotsfatboy1
(@patriotsfatboy1)
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So dont worry about it from a safety perspective? I am good with that. I just didnt have any answers for parents coming to me about this.

I think that the impact of having bigger kids being allowed to carry the ball is over-stated by parents.  The studies don't show unlimited leagues to be any safer (or unsafer) than weight restricted leagues. 

Anecdotally, I have not seen situations where players are more likely to get injured due to the size of the person carrying the ball.  However, if your league is also teaching "Heads Up" instead of rugby-style tackling, then maybe you see more trucking situations.  😛


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davecisar
(@davecisar)
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Our league it;s something like this:

3rd grade- 85
4th- 105
5th- 120
6th -140
7th- 155
8th- 175

I would prefer if they were down 10 lbs
Yes it is primarily a preception issue- but that is reality

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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The argument for enlisting like weighted kids on the same team a.k.a Pop Warner, punishes Older or Heavier kids who dont fall into those categories.  My son weighed a whopping 102 pounds in either grade.  The starting tackles weighed 220 plus.  Yet, using a strictly weighted scale would have meant he could play with 4-6 grade kids.  Oh wait he's too old for that team.  He cant play!

Those 220 pound kids couldn't play either unless we had enough kids over a certain weight to declare a Heavy Weight or unlimited squad. 

What may work in a urban area loaded with kids simply does not work in a rural setting where kids are comparatively scarce. 

I dont see an advantage to restricting their weight.  Especially if there are no restrictions later. 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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