Notifications
Clear all

Anyone still running SDW?

Page 1 / 3

festivus15
(@festivus15)
Copper
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 19
Topic starter  

Hey all, new head coach for my son’s 10u team this fall.  Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?   I’ve got the materials for several of the youth double wing systems, and I like the simplicity of this the best.   Just looking to see if anyone had tips to installing it and getting the boys rolling quickly.

 

 

 


Quote
Topic Tags
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18163
 
Posted by: @festivus15

Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?

What is "Simple Double Wing?"  A particular system of one of the Single Wing gurus?

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
bdjackson
(@bdjackson)
Bronze
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 344
 
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @festivus15

Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?

What is "Simple Double Wing?"  A particular system of one of the Single Wing gurus?

--Dave

Dave he is referring to JJs simple double wing system and manual. 

—Brian

Being Capable, first begins with being Confident.


ReplyQuote
bdjackson
(@bdjackson)
Bronze
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 344
 
Posted by: @festivus15

Hey all, new head coach for my son’s 10u team this fall.  Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?   I’ve got the materials for several of the youth double wing systems, and I like the simplicity of this the best.   Just looking to see if anyone had tips to installing it and getting the boys rolling quickly.

 

 

 

So before providing tips on install, are you set on JJs system? Do you know why you want to run that one, does it make since to you, and do you feel you can coach it. 

I ask as I do not find JJs system to be that simple at all for me. I get where JJ is going with his system 100%, but I always feel a little confused on how I would teach it without me getting confused. Again, his system is truly simple if you read it and fully grasp what he is doing. 

I also feel the same way with Gregory’s play calling. It works wonders for him and many of the coaches that use his system, but while I use many of the fundamentals and other information from the book, I cannot get onboard with his naming convention in most cases. 

Last questions would be, how long have you been running Doublewing if at all, what coaching experience do you have and at what age groups has it been. 

I know it’s a lot of questions, but I didn’t see it in your profile, and it will really help us answer your primary concerns. 

—Brian

Being Capable, first begins with being Confident.


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18163
 
Posted by: @bdjackso  Dave he is referring to JJs simple double wing system and manual. 

 

Ha.  I swear I read that last night as "Simple Single Wing."  Either I'm getting old, or I'm getting old; one or the other.

Anyhoos, JJ's Simple Double Wing?  Yes, I know it.  Haven't run it, but yes I know it.  I'm afraid I'm not much help here. lol

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18163
 
Posted by: @bdjackson

So before providing tips on install, are you set on JJs system? Do you know why you want to run that one, does it make since to you, and do you feel you can coach it. 

I ask as I do not find JJs system to be that simple at all for me. I get where JJ is going with his system 100%, but I always feel a little confused on how I would teach it without me getting confused. Again, his system is truly simple if you read it and fully grasp what he is doing. 

I also feel the same way with Gregory’s play calling. It works wonders for him and many of the coaches that use his system, but while I use many of the fundamentals and other information from the book, I cannot get onboard with his naming convention in most cases. 

Last questions would be, how long have you been running Doublewing if at all, what coaching experience do you have and at what age groups has it been. 

I know it’s a lot of questions, but I didn’t see it in your profile, and it will really help us answer your primary concerns. 

Nice post, Brian.  Your questions about other systems is what led me to running my own.  Since I have fewer questions about my own approach, it made sense for me to run mine.  HOWEVER, I have taken from many DW systems and coaches out there.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18163
 
Posted by: @festivus15

Hey all, new head coach for my son’s 10u team this fall.  Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?   I’ve got the materials for several of the youth double wing systems, and I like the simplicity of this the best.   Just looking to see if anyone had tips to installing it and getting the boys rolling quickly.

So what's out there in the DW world anyway?  Calande, Gregory, Lawson, Murphy, Wyatt?  Who have I overlooked?  Anyone else?  Maybe it's time for mine to come out.  And in tribute to its "old-schoolness," I'll issue the companion video on VHS.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18163
 
Posted by: @bdjackson

I also feel the same way with Gregory’s play calling. It works wonders for him and many of the coaches that use his system, but while I use many of the fundamentals and other information from the book, I cannot get onboard with his naming convention in most cases. 

Here's our naming convention:

Our motion tags are:

Lee=Left Wingback goes in "default Double Wing motion."

Ray=Right Wingback Goes in "default Double Wing motion."

We have other motion tags:

Orbit=A deeper motion.

Jet=A fast, streak motion.

Opposite (which we call "O" as in, "Lee-O" or "Ray-O" which means that Wingback is running a flat motion towards the sideline.) 

Phrases and tags could be, "Lee-Orbit, 38-Toss Reach," "Lee-Jet, 45-Counter-Lead Roger" or "Ray-O, 21-Wedge."

If there is no motion by the Wingback on the play, we do not have a "Lee" or "Ray" tag.  "Lee 36-Toss" becomes "36-Toss."

Our pulling tags are:

Larry=Left Guard and Left Tackle pull.

Larry GaTE=Left Guard and Left End pull.

Larry All=Left Guard, Left Tackle and Left End pull.

Roger=Right Guard and Right Tackle pull.

Roger GaTE=Right Guard and Right End pull.

Roger All=Right Guard, Right Tackle and Right End pull.

Our toss tag is simply, "toss."

An example would be, "Lee 36-Toss Larry."  If we were handing off the ball, instead of tossing, an example would be "Lee 36 Larry."

We number our linemen's butts, not the gaps because we are looking to run behind blockers, not between them.  Therefore:

2=Right Guard's butt.

4=Right Tackle's butt.

6=Right End's butt

8=Sweep to the right.

1=Left Guard's butt.

3=Left Tackle's butt.

5=Left End's butt.

7=Sweep to the left.

Backs numbering is:

QB=1

FB=2

LWB=3

RWB=4

This is a culmination and distillation of all the differing ways we've tried over the years.  Of course, there are a myriad of formation and blocking tags, as well.  But players only need to listen to their part of the call.  Plays could be as short as: "36 Larry" or as lengthy as "Loose Right, Lee-Jet, 45-Counter-Lead, Nasty Roger All.  I don't recall ever running Toss or Counter that way, but we could because our players understand the language.  Calls are built as "Formation/Play/Blocking Tag."  Where there is no formation adjustment stated, we default to DTDW.

--Dave

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 4823
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this also known as the free "forum playbook"? Password is dwinger?

If so, it's hosted on Coachsomebody.com, which is defunct. It was also hosted on Jack's website, also defunct.

Either way . . . never ran it, but I'm sure I studied it. It was so long ago, I can't remember what set it apart.

We ended up running Jack's stuff, then the next year stripped that down to bare metal. THAT was an offense. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


ReplyQuote
festivus15
(@festivus15)
Copper
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 19
Topic starter  
Posted by: @bdjackson
Posted by: @festivus15

Hey all, new head coach for my son’s 10u team this fall.  Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?   I’ve got the materials for several of the youth double wing systems, and I like the simplicity of this the best.   Just looking to see if anyone had tips to installing it and getting the boys rolling quickly.

 

 

 

So before providing tips on install, are you set on JJs system? Do you know why you want to run that one, does it make since to you, and do you feel you can coach it. 

I want to run it b/c in my head, it seemed the simplest of those I've studied as it seems fairly straightforward and logical to coach.  

I ask as I do not find JJs system to be that simple at all for me. I get where JJ is going with his system 100%, but I always feel a little confused on how I would teach it without me getting confused. Again, his system is truly simple if you read it and fully grasp what he is doing. 

I also feel the same way with Gregory’s play calling. It works wonders for him and many of the coaches that use his system, but while I use many of the fundamentals and other information from the book, I cannot get onboard with his naming convention in most cases. 

I agree with your thoughts on Gregory's system.  Seems a little too difficult for me to explain to 10u.

Last questions would be, how long have you been running Doublewing if at all, what coaching experience do you have and at what age groups has it been. 

I've never run doublewing before, so I'm brand new.  Back in high school we ran WingT, but that was 20 years ago for me, so it's fairly foggy at this point.  Coaching wise, my experience is all youth tackle and flag at 10u and below, for 6 years or so.  Another thing is that I'll be having to scramble to do this with dads helping from the team, which is redrafted every year.  I'll probably know some, but there's no guarantee on the boys I'll have outside of my son.  He's a good athlete and probably in the top 10% for speed, with average size, and a great grasp of the game.  I've used him at QB in the past b/c I know I can trust him.

I know it’s a lot of questions, but I didn’t see it in your profile, and it will really help us answer your primary concerns. 

—Brian

 


ReplyQuote
festivus15
(@festivus15)
Copper
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 19
Topic starter  

@gumby_in_co

Can you expand on what you mean when you say you stripped it down to bare metal.  I've got Jack's stuff, but as described I didn't feel like I could teach it to 10u.

 

 


ReplyQuote
festivus15
(@festivus15)
Copper
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 19
Topic starter  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @bdjackson

I also feel the same way with Gregory’s play calling. It works wonders for him and many of the coaches that use his system, but while I use many of the fundamentals and other information from the book, I cannot get onboard with his naming convention in most cases. 

Here's our naming convention:

Our motion tags are:

Lee=Left Wingback goes in "default Double Wing motion."

Ray=Right Wingback Goes in "default Double Wing motion."

We have other motion tags:

Orbit=A deeper motion.

Jet=A fast, streak motion.

Opposite (which we call "O" as in, "Lee-O" or "Ray-O" which means that Wingback is running a flat motion towards the sideline.) 

Phrases and tags could be, "Lee-Orbit, 38-Toss Reach," "Lee-Jet, 45-Counter-Lead Roger" or "Ray-O, 21-Wedge."

If there is no motion by the Wingback on the play, we do not have a "Lee" or "Ray" tag.  "Lee 36 Toss" becomes "36 Toss."

Our pulling tags are:

Larry=Left Guard and Left Tackle pull.

Larry GaTE=Left Guard and Left End pull.

Larry All=Left Guard, Left Tackle and Left End pull.

Roger=Right Guard and Right Tackle pull.

Roger GaTE=Right Guard and Right End pull.

Roger All=Right Guard, Right Tackle and Right End pull.

Our toss tag is simply, "toss."

An example would be, "Lee 36-Toss Larry."  If we were handing off the ball, instead of tossing, an example would be "Lee 36 Larry."

We number our linemen's butts, not the gaps because we are looking to run behind blockers, not between them.  Therefore:

2=Right Guard's butt.

4=Right Tackle's butt.

6=Right End's butt

8=Sweep to the right.

1=Left Guard's butt.

3=Left Tackle's butt.

5=Left End's butt.

7=Sweep to the left.

Backs numbering is:

QB=1

FB=2

LWB=3

RWB=4

This is a culmination and distillation of all the differing ways we've tried over the years.  Of course, there are a myriad of formation and blocking tags, as well.  But players only need to listen to their part of the call.  Plays could be as short as: "36 Larry" or as lengthy as "Loose Right, Lee-Jet, 45-Counter-Lead, Nasty Roger All.  I don't recall ever running Toss or Counter that way, but we could because our players understand the language.  Calls are built as "Formation/Play/Blocking Tag."  Where there is no formation adjustment stated, we default to DTDW.

--Dave

 

 

Thanks, Dave.  This sounds fairly straightforward, too.  

some questions for you...

 

Do you have a strong/quick side and flip?  Or just play it w/o flipping?  

If you're pulling all, are you completely ignoring the backside pursuit?  

Do you do TKO blocking for toss?  or double team?

 


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18163
 
Posted by: @festivus15

I want to run it b/c in my head, it seemed the simplest of those I've studied as it seems fairly straightforward and logical to coach.  

--But what's "fairly straightforward and logical" for you, could be entirely illogical and challenging for someone else.  That's why there are systems that differ so greatly in their terminology.

I agree with your thoughts on Gregory's system.  Seems a little too difficult for me to explain to 10u.

--Which is why your terminology has to make sense to you.  If it slows you down, it will slow down your players.  Coach Wyatt's terminology is difficult for me.  But when he teaches his system to my players, they've had no issues in learning it quickly and thoroughly.  That's because it makes sense to Coach Wyatt and he's great at teaching it.  And if I speak to Coach Wyatt about what he does, I have to converse in his language.  So while I now know it, through years of exposure, it's still not my native tongue.  Jack's is much the same way.  It makes sense to Jack.  And since he understands it, it's not difficult for his players to understand.

I've never run doublewing before, so I'm brand new.  

--Gadzooks Man, then why even run the thing?  Don't you know that TV offenses are all the rage?

Another thing is that I'll be having to scramble to do this with dads helping from the team, which is redrafted every year.  

--Be prepared to explain to them why you'd run the Double Wing.  I'd imagine they're hung up on TV offenses too, as well as making sure the offense "prepares the kids for the next level."

--Dave

 

 

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
festivus15
(@festivus15)
Copper
Joined: 4 years ago
Posts: 19
Topic starter  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @festivus15

I want to run it b/c in my head, it seemed the simplest of those I've studied as it seems fairly straightforward and logical to coach.  

--But what's "fairly straightforward and logical" for you, could be entirely illogical and challenging for someone else.  That's why there are systems that differ so greatly in their terminology.

I agree with your thoughts on Gregory's system.  Seems a little too difficult for me to explain to 10u.

--Which is why your terminology has to make sense to you.  If it slows you down, it will slow down your players.  Coach Wyatt's terminology is difficult for me.  But when he teaches his system to my players, they've had no issues in learning it quickly and thoroughly.  That's because it makes sense to Coach Wyatt and he's great at teaching it.  And if I speak to Coach Wyatt about what he does, I have to converse in his language.  So while I now know it, through years of exposure, it's still not my native tongue.  Jack's is much the same way.  It makes sense to Jack.  Ans since he understands it, it's not difficult for his players to understand.

I've never run doublewing before, so I'm brand new.  

--Gadzooks Man, then why even run the thing?  Don't you know that TV offenses are all the rage?

Ha, I was an assistant last year for a guy who ran a random collection of I and other things that certainly weren't a system.  After the 50th time I heard him yell to just 'block somebody' I decided I needed to take it over myself for this year.  Un

Another thing is that I'll be having to scramble to do this with dads helping from the team, which is redrafted every year.  

--Be prepared to explain to them why you'd run the Double Wing.  I'd imagine they're hung up on TV offenses too, as well as making sure the offense "prepares the kids for the next level."

the best thing I can to do 'prepare them for the next level' is to teach solid fundamentals and get them used to blocking and tackling and playing sound football.

 

--Dave

 

 

 

 

 


ReplyQuote
CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 12 years ago
Posts: 18163
 
Posted by: @festivus15 

Do you have a strong/quick side and flip?  Or just play it w/o flipping?  

--I've flipped ONE TIME at the high school level.  I hated it and we weren't successful with it.  The success I've had in this offense was always without flipping.  I can teach pulling.  I can teach blocking.  There's a very long pinned thread on this site about the subject of teaching the pull.

If you're pulling all, are you completely ignoring the backside pursuit?  

--No, not necessarily.   Certainly when we pull ALL, we aren't concerned about backside pursuit (but there's reasons why we ignore.  How much time do you have?). But when we pull BSG and BST, the BSTE stays backside.  And when we pull BSG and BSTE, the BST stays backside.  So in two out of the three pulling schemes we use, we leave one player on the backside to deal with backside pursuit.  This is really a pulling question, because it turns out to be part of the excuse that youth coaches refuse to pull blockers; their fear/concern/inability to teach how to deal with backside pursuit.  The short answer is: backside pursuit should never be an issue.  If it is, you're doing something wrong.  Can we fix that issue? Absolutely.  Do you have to "FIND" kids who can pull?  No.  You simply teach them.  Kids can run and kids can block.  Can you know what to do in advance of teaching it?  Sure.  Give me a call.

Do you do TKO blocking for toss?  or double team?

--Yes.  lol

Actually, it depends, because we have a myriad of blocking tags for plays.  We used to rule block.  And rule blocking was great because we could basically teach one rule and be done with it.  But rule blocking is most advantageous when you're running the same play to more than one hole.  Doesn't matter if you run Power to the 2 or 4 or 6-hole, the same rule will take care of it, against almost any front.  But we dispensed with running Power all over the place, despite that fact that it's the perfect play.  We run it to one butt, and that's it.  So we don't need a rule that will also account for running it to other holes.  So we down-block on Power because down blocking is an even greater advantage than a double team when dealing with a D-Line Stud.  But we can also Tag the blocks on Power as well, by running it with a double team, a triple team, unbalanced, nasty split, Power-I look, Beast, swapping kick-out block assignments, etc.  

The single greatest threat a defensive lineman can pose is 1) to be talented, and 2) know how he's going to be blocked.  So if we down-block him, out-block him, X-block him, double team him, triple team him, split him in Nasty, double him on a kick-out with the FB and PSG, FB and QB, QB and PSG, FB and WB, etc. he'll never be able to anticipate where the block is coming from or who's going to execute it.  Now at your age level, you won't see much in the way of defensive adjustments, however, good D-Linemen will learn and adjust and anticipate.  Learning how to change up basic blocking assignments is not only simple to do, but essential.

It's interesting that what attracted me to the Double Wing was its one-size-fits-all blocking scheme.  Now we tag every DW play differently and have gotten away from blocking rules.  And here at the high school, I've pretty much been able to do away with Zone, only to add blocking rules to our Air Raid offense.  I'd have never thought I'd have gotten away from blocking rules at Double Wing, and then incorporated blocking rules into our Air Raid.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


ReplyQuote
Page 1 / 3
Share: