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festivus15
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @festivus15 

Do you have a strong/quick side and flip?  Or just play it w/o flipping?  

--I've flipped ONE TIME at the high school level.  I hated it and we weren't successful with it.  The success I've had in this offense was always without flipping.  I can teach pulling.  I can teach blocking.  There's a very long pinned thread on this site about the subject of teaching the pull.

interesting.  Based on the team we had last year and the mix of athletes, flipping would have been best.  I'll see what I end up with this year on the flip/no flip question.

If you're pulling all, are you completely ignoring the backside pursuit?  

--No, not necessarily.   Certainly when we pull ALL, we aren't concerned about backside pursuit (but there's reasons why we ignore.  How much time do you have?). But when we pull BSG and BST, the BSTE stays backside.  And when we pull BSG and BSTE, the BST stays backside.  So in two out of the three pulling schemes we use, we leave one player on the backside to deal with backside pursuit.  This is really a pulling question, because it turns out to be part of the excuse that youth coaches refuse to pull blockers; their fear/concern/inability to teach how to deal with backside pursuit.  The short answer is: backside pursuit should never be an issue.  If it is, you're doing something wrong.  Can we fix that issue? Absolutely.  Do you have to "FIND" kids who can pull?  No.  You simply teach them.  Kids can run and kids can block.  Can you know what to do in advance of teaching it?  Sure.  Give me a call.

That makes sense.  My question was specifically on the ALL tag and what that did for the backside.  I fully plan on pulling G/T or GaTe, depending on how much grief officials give me on superman/shoeshine from the TE.  

Do you do TKO blocking for toss?  or double team?

--Yes.  lol

Actually, it depends, because we have a myriad of blocking tags for plays.  We used to rule block.  And rule blocking was great because we could basically teach one rule and be done with it.  But rule blocking is most advantageous when you're running the same play to more than one hole.  Doesn't matter if you run Power to the 2 or 4 or 6-hole, the same rule will take care of it, against almost any front.  But we dispensed with running Power all over the place, despite that fact that it's the perfect play.  We run it to one butt, and that's it.  So we don't need a rule that will also account for running it to other holes.  So we down-block on Power because down blocking is an even greater advantage than a double team when dealing with a D-Line Stud.  But we can also Tag the blocks on Power as well, by running it with a double team, a triple team, unbalanced, nasty split, Power-I look, Beast, swapping kick-out block assignments, etc.  

The single greatest threat a defensive lineman can pose is 1) to be talented, and 2) know how he's going to be blocked.  So if we down-block him, out-block him, X-block him, double team him, triple team him, split him in Nasty, double him on a kick-out with the FB and PSG, FB and QB, QB and PSG, FB and WB, etc. he'll never be able to anticipate where the block is coming from or who's going to execute it.  Now at your age level, you won't see much in the way of defensive adjustments, however, good D-Linemen will learn and adjust and anticipate.  Learning how to change up basic blocking assignments is not only simple to do, but essential.

It's interesting that what attracted me to the Double Wing was its one-size-fits-all blocking scheme.  Now we tag every DW play differently and have gotten away from blocking rules.  And here at the high school, I've pretty much been able to do away with Zone, only to add blocking rules to our Air Raid offense.  I'd have never thought I'd have gotten away from blocking rules at Double Wing, and then incorporated blocking rules into our Air Raid.

so mostly just a straight down block then as your base call for toss.  do you have the play side TE just ignore the DE and go to the next level and kick him out with the FB, even if the DE starts head up / inside?  

--Dave

 

 


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @festivus15
 
Ha, I was an assistant last year for a guy who ran a random collection of I and other things that certainly weren't a system.  After the 50th time I heard him yell to just 'block somebody' I decided I needed to take it over myself for this year.  Un
 
--Well, there certainly needs to be consistency in teaching, and sound football technique in fundamentals.  Most coaches don't teach fundamentals because they don't know what the fundamentals are, what fundamentals to teach or how to teach them.  In short,  most aren't interested in the fundamentals.  The other downside to teaching fundamentals is how long it takes (bang for your buck), especially when you are an inexperienced coach.  I see more time wasted on the WRONG fundamentals than I see on poor teaching of fundamentals.  For instance, "a good stance" has little to do with how good of a blocker someone is, but I'll see a lot of time wasted on teaching a pretty stance, instead of focusing on how good of a block the kid can deliver.

 

the best thing I can to do 'prepare them for the next level' is to teach solid fundamentals and get them used to blocking and tackling and playing sound football.

 

 

--Oh, I'll agree with the every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.  But for every one coach that makes sense, there's 50 clueless idiots who are trying to get into your ear.

--Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Biggest time wasters with zero return on the investment:

Running laps

Static warmups

Stances

Scrimmaging

Reactive coaching (instead of proactive coaching).  Reactive is offering no real coaching PRIOR to the snap but offering tips on how to fix the mistake AFTER the snap.  In this approach, players are only getting their reps after they'd made the mistakes, thus playing mistake-filled football.  In Proactive coaching, the teaching is done prior to the snap in order to minimize the mistake in advance of the mistake.  Think of it like this: You're at the top of a mountain and you have to jump a 5-foot gap over a 100-foot ravine.  If you miss, you'll fall down the ravine and you'll die.  Don't you think you would analyze every advantage to getting the jump correct BEFORE you actually have to make that jump?  I try coaching football that same way.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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terrypjohnson
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Posted by: @festivus15

Hey all, new head coach for my son’s 10u team this fall.  Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?   I’ve got the materials for several of the youth double wing systems, and I like the simplicity of this the best.   Just looking to see if anyone had tips to installing it and getting the boys rolling quickly.

 

 

 

While I run mostly Single Wing and Beast, I also ran Coach JJ's Simple Double Wing. My 8U kids picked it up very quickly.

If you go to Coach JJ's custom systems, there's a playbook that you can download. He breaks down what you should run by age group and does a good job explaining it. With the exception of Wedge (stupid A Gap rule), my teams ran all of the Quick Series plays, plus Toss and Toss Cut.

Here's a two things I did for the install that helped my teams:

1) I used "Laser" (SAB Left) and "Razor" (SAB Right) to each play call. I did this because some of the kids didn't know left from right. But the left side knew that Razor meant to pull, etc.

2) I made sure that they understand to stay on their track. We had trouble early in the season with kids chasing tacklers rather than staying on track. After using Coach Keen's Train analogy (e.g. a train doesn't stop when a car is in its track, nor does it leave the track to chase a car), everything clicked.

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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COCoachKC
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Posted by: @festivus15

@gumby_in_co

Can you expand on what you mean when you say you stripped it down to bare metal.  I've got Jack's stuff, but as described I didn't feel like I could teach it to 10u.

 

 

Coach,

Lar and I coached together back then. I can send you the coaching guide when I get back to my home office.  In a nut shell, we stripped play calling down to a single word for most plays with a few tags.  That was our season coaching 9-year olds.

Kent


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Posted by: @festivus15

interesting.  Based on the team we had last year and the mix of athletes, flipping would have been best.  I'll see what I end up with this year on the flip/no flip question

--I didn't say flipping couldn't be done successfully.  Many coaches have and can.  You asked me if I do it.  No.  I don't like the tell, and I can pull equally well to both sides.

That makes sense.  My question was specifically on the ALL tag and what that did for the backside.

--Ever sit at a railroad crossing waiting for the train to pass?  You can see flashes of traffic on the other side of the tracks in between each boxcar, but you'd get killed if you actually tried to get through those gaps while the train was running.  You're safer just waiting for the train to pass on through.

I fully plan on pulling G/T or GaTe, depending on how much grief officials give me on superman/shoeshine from the TE.  

--If you're planning on Superman/Shoeshine blocks, I wouldn't.  That's an argument with the refs you can't win.  Your backside block is nothing more than a pull/hinge and with the Center blocking away (assuming you're facing an even front), the backside sealer (we call it "fill") barely has to move.  Against an odd front, filling with the BSTE might not be for you since the Center can't close the backside A-Gap because he's blocking the Zero-Technique.  GaTE works very well against an Odd front because the BST only has to fill the backside A-Gap.  Do not Shoeshine.  You're putting the success of your offense and the time you've invested in your practices into the hands of an idiot with a God-Complex.

 

so mostly just a straight down block then as your base call for toss.

--Yes.  You can tag it as "Down," or just not tag it at all, since it's a default.

do you have the play side TE just ignore the DE and go to the next level and kick him out with the FB, even if the DE starts head up / inside?  

--The PSTE has Gap/Down/Backer.  (You can just give him "Down," if that makes it simpler/easier.). We always want him making some sort of variation of a down block and G/D/B gives us that.  If their DE is head up, we want to (usually) kick him out with the Fullback.  However, unbalanced lines and Nasty Splits allow us to have all sorts of fun with their DE at his expense.  You can also do a Wing-On call and down block their 6-technique with your Playside WB.  Just rotating Unbalanced, Nasty, and Wing-On is a good time.  After a head-spinning beatdown, we've seen 6-techniques make themselves 9-techniques simply because they were tired of the barrage.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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bdjackson
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this also known as the free "forum playbook"? Password is dwinger?

If so, it's hosted on Coachsomebody.com, which is defunct. It was also hosted on Jack's website, also defunct.

Either way . . . never ran it, but I'm sure I studied it. It was so long ago, I can't remember what set it apart.

We ended up running Jack's stuff, then the next year stripped that down to bare metal. THAT was an offense. 

I let JJ know. I think he had some host issues that led to it being taken offline. 

Being Capable, first begins with being Confident.


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bdjackson
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@cocoachkc

 

can you send me hat guide as well. I know Larvhad mentioned their simple play calling but I’d be interested to see it on paper

Being Capable, first begins with being Confident.


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festivus15
(@festivus15)
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @terrypjohnson
Posted by: @festivus15

Hey all, new head coach for my son’s 10u team this fall.  Is anyone still running the Simple Double Wing?   I’ve got the materials for several of the youth double wing systems, and I like the simplicity of this the best.   Just looking to see if anyone had tips to installing it and getting the boys rolling quickly.

 

 

 

While I run mostly Single Wing and Beast, I also ran Coach JJ's Simple Double Wing. My 8U kids picked it up very quickly.

If you go to Coach JJ's custom systems, there's a playbook that you can download. He breaks down what you should run by age group and does a good job explaining it. With the exception of Wedge (stupid A Gap rule), my teams ran all of the Quick Series plays, plus Toss and Toss Cut.

Here's a two things I did for the install that helped my teams:

1) I used "Laser" (SAB Left) and "Razor" (SAB Right) to each play call. I did this because some of the kids didn't know left from right. But the left side knew that Razor meant to pull, etc.

2) I made sure that they understand to stay on their track. We had trouble early in the season with kids chasing tacklers rather than staying on track. After using Coach Keen's Train analogy (e.g. a train doesn't stop when a car is in its track, nor does it leave the track to chase a car), everything clicked.

Thanks.  that sounds like good advice.  


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festivus15
(@festivus15)
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @festivus15

interesting.  Based on the team we had last year and the mix of athletes, flipping would have been best.  I'll see what I end up with this year on the flip/no flip question

--I didn't say flipping couldn't be done successfully.  Many coaches have and can.  You asked me if I do it.  No.  I don't like the tell, and I can pull equally well to both sides.

That makes sense.  My question was specifically on the ALL tag and what that did for the backside.

--Ever sit at a railroad crossing waiting for the train to pass?  You can see flashes of traffic on the other side of the tracks in between each boxcar, but you'd get killed if you actually tried to get through those gaps while the train was running.  You're safer just waiting for the train to pass on through.

I like that analogy.  slows them down just enough.

I fully plan on pulling G/T or GaTe, depending on how much grief officials give me on superman/shoeshine from the TE.  

--If you're planning on Superman/Shoeshine blocks, I wouldn't.  That's an argument with the refs you can't win.  Your backside block is nothing more than a pull/hinge and with the Center blocking away (assuming you're facing an even front), the backside sealer (we call it "fill") barely has to move.  Against an odd front, filling with the BSTE might not be for you since the Center can't close the backside A-Gap because he's blocking the Zero-Technique.  GaTE works very well against an Odd front because the BST only has to fill the backside A-Gap.  Do not Shoeshine.  You're putting the success of your offense and the time you've invested in your practices into the hands of an idiot with a God-Complex.

sounds like you're speaking from experience there.  and I like your method better.  I can see the fronts from the sideline, and at my level, teams aren't running much more than a single front anyway.  So guard and tackle on even fronts, and GaTE on odd.  

 

so mostly just a straight down block then as your base call for toss.

--Yes.  You can tag it as "Down," or just not tag it at all, since it's a default.

do you have the play side TE just ignore the DE and go to the next level and kick him out with the FB, even if the DE starts head up / inside?  

--The PSTE has Gap/Down/Backer.  (You can just give him "Down," if that makes it simpler/easier.). We always want him making some sort of variation of a down block and G/D/B gives us that.  If their DE is head up, we want to (usually) kick him out with the Fullback.  However, unbalanced lines and Nasty Splits allow us to have all sorts of fun with their DE at his expense.  You can also do a Wing-On call and down block their 6-technique with your Playside WB.  Just rotating Unbalanced, Nasty, and Wing-On is a good time.  After a head-spinning beatdown, we've seen 6-techniques make themselves 9-techniques simply because they were tired of the barrage.

I like that.  just keep moving the DE around with OVER, Nasty, and wing-on.  simple enough way to deal w/ at DE who's too smart for his own good.

--Dave

 


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @festivus15

That makes sense.  My question was specifically on the ALL tag and what that did for the backside.

--It's a change-up.  All three pull-tags are a change-up.  It keeps the defense from getting comfortable and being able to anticipate.  All three work, but they are all different.

 

I like that analogy.  slows them down just enough.

--If the pulls are fast enough, there's no gap to run through; you'll just have to go around the caboose.  And by then, it's too late.

 

 

 

I fully plan on pulling G/T or GaTe, depending on how much grief officials give me on superman/shoeshine from the TE.  

 

 

sounds like you're speaking from experience there.  

--Yes, unfortunately.

and I like your method better.  

--So do I.  I wouldn't go back to a shoeshine even if we could.

So guard and tackle on even fronts, and GaTE on odd.  

--Yes.

I like that.  just keep moving the DE around with OVER, Nasty, and wing-on.  simple enough way to deal w/ at DE who's too smart for his own good.

--Exactly.  And the one's who are none too bright, will just get down-blocked, kicked-out or double-teamed every time.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @festivus15

@gumby_in_co

Can you expand on what you mean when you say you stripped it down to bare metal.  I've got Jack's stuff, but as described I didn't feel like I could teach it to 10u.

 

 

Kent (CO_Coach_KC) will send you our manual from back then, but here's a quick rundown:

"Tight, RIP AB Power Right" became "Toss"

"Tight RIP AB Sweep Right" became "Sweep"

"Right RIP, BB Wedge Criss Cross" became "Wedge

And so forth for WB Counter, FB Counter, Reverse and QB Wedge. We'd call the plays from the sideline by yelling out a state or city name that starts with the same letter as the play we wanted. Texas, Wisconsin, Seattle. We couldn't call counters or reverses from the sideline because . . . reasons. I don't think we could run QB wedge either. Or maybe we could . . . it was over 10 years ago.

Anyway, we flipped and it worked very well for us. 10 years later, I'd like to fool myself into thinking that I'm a better coach and could go without flipping with the practice time allotted. We flipped the whole offense, so to run counters, we'd have to huddle or take advantage of a timeout to "flop" the backs. Our strong side always TKO'd and our quick side always pulled. JJ did it differently. On his counters, quick side would TKO and strong side would pull. Either one works. Not flipping works. 

We also had a handful of tags for Tackle Over, Wing On, FB offset, etc. 30+ ppg with the brakes on in over half our games.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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terrypjohnson
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This is posted in another forum here (under Coach JJ's custom systems), but I've downloaded a copy of it and am placing it here in case it can helps someone. It sure as heck helped me -- I even passed it on to a former assistant who's a first time head coach this year!

Coach Terry

 

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @terrypjohnson

This is posted in another forum here (under Coach JJ's custom systems), but I've downloaded a copy of it and am placing it here in case it can helps someone. It sure as heck helped me -- I even passed it on to a former assistant who's a first time head coach this year!

Coach Terry

 

Man, this takes me back. This whole thread takes me back.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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festivus15
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Topic starter  
Posted by: @terrypjohnson

This is posted in another forum here (under Coach JJ's custom systems), but I've downloaded a copy of it and am placing it here in case it can helps someone. It sure as heck helped me -- I even passed it on to a former assistant who's a first time head coach this year!

Coach Terry

 

Thanks.  I actually had that file already 😉

 

also thanks to everyone for all the helpful responses.  Sometimes the internet is actually a decent place ?  


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