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Coach Kyle
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Has anyone tried to run a play like this?

I would think this would work well out of sw or beast because they're overloading to stop sweep/power. I'm thinking the end blocks corner and the wing goes on the arrow for five steps. Qb takes 2 to 3 steps deep then throws.

You could actually do the same thing back side with you up back and back side te. Qb could just fake for 2 steps strong side then boot. 

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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CoachDP
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We've done it.  Our pass route was different, though.  When you show as much unbalanced as we do, you want to take advantage of the defensive shifts.

There was a recent question in the SGDW FB group about whether unbalanced was better run with Tackle Over or Tight End Over.  We used it as Tackle Over when we wanted to be able to pass to the short-side Tight End.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @coachdp

We've done it.  Our pass route was different, though.  When you show as much unbalanced as we do, you want to take advantage of the defensive shifts.

There was a recent question in the SGDW FB group about whether unbalanced was better run with Tackle Over or Tight End Over.  We used it as Tackle Over when we wanted to be able to pass to the short-side Tight End.

--Dave

How did it work out? I want to take advantage of aggressive DEs who want to crash into our beast stack.

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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gumby_in_co
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The only thing close we've run to this is a quick (3 yard) out to the short end in Beast. No one EVER covers that guy.  But you've given me some ideas. 

I will keep these ideas to myself until our schedule comes out. I'm talking to you, Troy. 🤣 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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terrypjohnson
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We did something like this my first season at 8U. I ran mostly Coach Eien's Fat Formation - 16 Power and 18 Sweep. When teams overshifted to the strong side, we'd sneak the fullback out to the backside flat similar to how the TE did here. The first time we completed it, the FB went for 30+. A couple of games later, they covered the FB and the X was wide open for a big gain. 

If you've got an athlete or two with a good arm -- a big if -- that's a great play. It was hard for me to run this after the first season because my TB's didn't have a big arm. I put my son (usually a FB) back there once and the other side screamed pass once we broke the huddle *LOL*

 

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @coach-kyle

How did it work out? I want to take advantage of aggressive DEs who want to crash into our beast stack.

It was fine.  Used it as a pop pass.  Would have done better with it if I'd used it like when I coached Air Raid.  Any time you can hide your receiver, it's a good thing.  This formation hides him.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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mahonz
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Lets not forget that Beast and UBSW are some of the worst passing formations available. 

 

We tried slip screening in the past out of Beast but without play action its got pick 6 written all over it. 

 

This video clip shows why this play works out of 2x2 with play action. Getting this to work in Beast will work vs crappy teams. Always design your Beast passing plays to attack the best teams. Using a single vertical threat is fine. 7-10 yard Corner routes work best. You have to remember that Beast brings out weird things from the Defense. Beast is not "normal" so neither are some of the Defenses you will face but for some reason they always leave this giant hole in-between the CB and FS and just behind the OLB...hence the Corner route by a TE is money. 

An Arrow route needs a companion route next to it. Otherwise it a dangerous route. Beast is a terrible companion route Offense for two reasons....time and space. What you could do is use a long side SE and throw the Arrow to a WB....but that is not what you want to do running the football so now you are telegraphing pass. Getting the TE to block the CB like you suggest  has value but the OLB is still unaccounted for unless you play action. In that clip...watch the OLB and EMOL freeze on the play action leaving the FS too late to the party. That is a formation play action design you cant get out of Beast or UBSW. 

After going mega splits we did split out the short side TE but that was more so to draw 1-1/2 Defenders his way. Never really did much for the passing game other than allowing us to run the Slant route. Plus I think in hindsight it hurt the Counter plays. 

Food for thought. 

PS...the Post Corner or Corner Route is what I call an NFL throw and catch....meaning the QB and Receiver are in a straight line while the ball is in the air. This is difficult for the young QB to anticipate and the Receiver is catching the ball over his shoulder. So we teach our Receivers to flatten out after he makes his break so it becomes a sloppy deep out. Much easier throw and catch for the little Dudes. 

This post was modified 4 weeks ago 3 times by mahonz

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @mahonz

Lets not forget that Beast and UBSW are some of the worst passing formations available. 

 

We tried slip screening in the past out of Beast but without play action its got pick 6 written all over it. 

 

This video clip shows why this play works out of 2x2 with play action. Getting this to work in Beast will work vs crappy teams. Always design your Beast passing plays to attack the best teams. Using a single vertical threat is fine. 7-10 yard Corner routes work best. You have to remember that Beast brings out weird things from the Defense. Beast is not "normal" so neither are some of the Defenses you will face but for some reason they always leave this giant hole in-between the CB and FS and just behind the OLB...hence the Corner route by a TE is money. 

An Arrow route needs a companion route next to it. Otherwise it a dangerous route. Beast is a terrible companion route Offense for two reasons....time and space. What you could do is use a long side SE and throw the Arrow to a WB....but that is not what you want to do running the football so now you are telegraphing pass. Getting the TE to block the CB like you suggest  has value but the OLB is still unaccounted for unless you play action. In that clip...watch the OLB and EMOL freeze on the play action leaving the FS too late to the party. That is a formation play action design you cant get out of Beast or UBSW. 

After going mega splits we did split out the short side TE but that was more so to draw 1-1/2 Defenders his way. Never really did much for the passing game other than allowing us to run the Slant route. Plus I think in hindsight it hurt the Counter plays. 

Food for thought. 

PS...the Post Corner or Corner Route is what I call an NFL throw and catch....meaning the QB and Receiver are in a straight line while the ball is in the air. This is difficult for the young QB to anticipate and the Receiver is catching the ball over his shoulder. So we teach our Receivers to flatten out after he makes his break so it becomes a sloppy deep out. Much easier throw and catch for the little Dudes. 

How is the beast the worst passing formation but the bunch set is considered a passing concept? 😀 

 

I think the "No play action" sounds wrong to me. The QB can take a few steps and fake the run. If that's enough to get 3 steps of separation for the 4 back from the DE and OLB, then that ought to work. On the backside play I was planning to have the QB take 3 steps stack side, then boot, so again it's a play action. If that action freezes the OLB and DE, now the TE has 3 steps on them, and by the time they figure out what to do, they'll be 5 steps behind them, which is huge separation.

 

As far as the "arrow route needs a companion" it's an arrow screen, so the companion is the kick out block from the TE on the corner. Maybe the formations will be too nutty because we're running beast, but I think that's why having plays designed to hit certain parts of the field are a good idea. If they're crashing hard from ends/olb/corner, this ought to be good. The backside ought to be great if they've only got 1 player outside the TE on the backside.

Deaths while walking 4,743Deaths from football 12


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @coach-kyle

How did it work out? I want to take advantage of aggressive DEs who want to crash into our beast stack.

It was fine.  Used it as a pop pass.  Would have done better with it if I'd used it like when I coached Air Raid.  Any time you can hide your receiver, it's a good thing.  This formation hides him.

--Dave

The air raid hides him or the beast hides him?

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mahonz
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Posted by: @coach-kyle

How is the beast the worst passing formation but the bunch set is considered a passing concept? 😀 

Bunch concepts are awesome....when you don't have 4 OLM in front of them. 👍

 

I think the "No play action" sounds wrong to me. The QB can take a few steps and fake the run. If that's enough to get 3 steps of separation for the 4 back from the DE and OLB, then that ought to work. On the backside play I was planning to have the QB take 3 steps stack side, then boot, so again it's a play action. If that action freezes the OLB and DE, now the TE has 3 steps on them, and by the time they figure out what to do, they'll be 5 steps behind them, which is huge separation.

 

As far as the "arrow route needs a companion" it's an arrow screen, so the companion is the kick out block from the TE on the corner. Maybe the formations will be too nutty because we're running beast, but I think that's why having plays designed to hit certain parts of the field are a good idea. If they're crashing hard from ends/olb/corner, this ought to be good. The backside ought to be great if they've only got 1 player outside the TE on the backside.

Its a time and space thing. Line it up and check it out vs an aggressive Defense. You will quickly discover you have two options with your QB. One or two steps and Pop Pass or catch the snap and throw immediately. Now... you can design your Pops to hit different spots on the field. 

You can get some nice looking play action going in traditional SW if you run spinner. That chit is deadly. But Beast....meh. Its bully boy football and that's about it. Your boots to the backside can easily end up 10 yard losses. Rolling out long side is iffy. Its simply a numbers ( space) thing and you wont have time to be doing any cartwheels back there. 

Its got to be BAM BAM football is gone. 

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J. Potter (seabass)
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We use that exact play now at the goal line. When we used to run beast anywhere on the field we would run that backside guy down the seam and it was our home run play.


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Coach Kyle
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Posted by: @seabass

We use that exact play now at the goal line. When we used to run beast anywhere on the field we would run that backside guy down the seam and it was our home run play.

The seam? The LOS?

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CoachDP
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Posted by: @coach-kyle

The air raid hides him or the beast hides him?

In the Air Raid receivers were used to clear areas for the primary receiver.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Seth54
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Hey Coach Kyle, I’ve run this play, not out of Beast, but similar to Coach Potter as short yardage play and it’s money as a 2pt conversion play.

 

The first point I’d address is, don’t think of this as a TE screen. It’s an arrow route. I’ve runt it with Twins and a single WR to the Arrow side and for me it’s best as a Slant Arrow. If it’s Twins the outside WR just runs a deep clear out. I tell the Slant player to run his route at the nearest OLB off the ball to his side, that guy should be responsible for the TE, he’ll probably get there just in time to block him as the TE catch Les the ball. I don’t like the way the #1 is just blocking, but that’s college football today. I think what Coach Mahonz is saying is that Beast doesn’t give you the outside receivers to run guys off and clear space underneath for this. Maybe a traditional single wing with the detached SE would work better otherwise the backside TE end on a seam or post route sounds like it would work to me. Especially if they have over shifted to the Beast side


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@coach-kyle 

Straight down the field.


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