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Coach Tmac
(@coach-tmac)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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Topic starter  

Coaches,

Do any of you have your backs a little more upright, more of a traditional RB 2pt stance such as Coach Darlingtons backs at Apopka? I recently met coach Darlington at the Phoenix Glazier Clinic and learned alot. Although his SW system isn't made for the youth level, I am debating whether or not to keep the backs crouched like Coach Cisar or more traditional like Coach Darlington. I definitely see the benefit of keeping youth backs crouched to add more deception and make it harder for the LB's to see. The only negative I have really seen to the SW is simply parents not liking the aesthetics of the crouching, which is why I am debating. Any thoughts from you all will be greatly appreciated!


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
Kryptonite
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 12408
 

Traditional sw offenses had the regular back stance that you are referring to. Dave changed his due to a discovery in a bad weather game. The wind was blowing the ball all over the place so the one back crouched down to solve the issue. What was discovered was that the offense became more deceptive. When you look at the height of youth players it probably makes it even more deceptive than it would with older players. I think you may loose some of the speed at which the backs would hit the hole but in youth ball I'll take deception over power any day of the week. And I don't think the loss of speed at the poa is really all that noticeable. We have had kids that looked like they were shot out of a cannon from the crouched stance.


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Arizona_Cheesehead
(@arizona_cheesehead)
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The only negative I have really seen to the SW is simply parents not liking the aesthetics of the crouching, which is why I am debating.

I also attend a few sessions put on by Coach Darlington in Phoenix. I think you will find that at the younger age levels the Dave's system is the way to go. We run his system and since changing to it we have virtually zero turnovers and have scored a ton of points as most youth teams have no idea how to defend and it is especially hard if you have a small athletic 3 back who can run traps and wedges and be gone before anyone notices he has the ball.

LoL.......... My parents absolutely hate running the UBSW. They all think 7,8 and 9yr olds should be running a pro spread type of offense.


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jrk5150
(@jrk5150)
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Joined: 11 years ago
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I think Cisar's backfield alignment and stance helps in a few ways.

It allows you to have the C snap low and slow, which largely eliminates both the high hard snap (deadly in gun) and the dreaded ground ball through the legs. And it's better in weather.

And yes, if that's not enough, it is friggin impossible to see the damn backs which is a nice bonus.


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Coach Tmac
(@coach-tmac)
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Joined: 6 years ago
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Topic starter  

Thanks for the input gents. I appreciate it. I agree with PSLCoachRob that it may hit a bit faster but likely not fast enough to really make a difference. My main thought was getting a little more buy in from the parents. I think I will stick with the DC SW back stance for more deception.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Joined: 9 years ago
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I am not one to go looking for buy in from the parents but at our preseason parents meeting we explained what it was we were doing and why we were doing it. It helps and as long as you are winning they tend to be positive.


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seanie12
(@seanie12)
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Joined: 11 years ago
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I've run Dave's system for the past 8 seasons and this past season we ended up 6-4 a winning season, but not our typical level of success.  I had many parents complain and on some occasions confront me that the offense was not preparing their kids for the higher levels.  It drained on me as the season progressed and for the first time I really considered stepping away from coaching.  I coached my nephew this past season and my wife attended games for the first time to see him, so most didn't know who she was and to have her tell me how people bad talked me in the stands was tough to stomach all based on the offense basically 3 kids crouch down.  I saw Coach Darlington at the Indy Glazier this year and will probably incorporate some of his concepts with the DC stuff that I do.  It's sounds good in theory to discount parents influence good, bad or otherwise on your team, coaches etc. but that S#&* gets so tired after awhile.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
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Doesn't anyone ever get as a rxn from parents, "Cool!  I never saw that before."


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darthdaddy17
(@darthdaddy17)
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Joined: 7 years ago
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most youth teams have no idea how to defend and it is especially hard if you have a small athletic 3 back who can run traps and wedges and be gone before anyone notices he has the ball.

This was the reason why I went with the SW. In my previous 2 seasons just about every one and their brother was running some version of the I formation or wishbone. I wanted something different when I found Cisar's stuff, I knew I found it. It was quite amusing to watch the Def coaches try all sorts of alignments against us and struggle greatly.

Doesn't anyone ever get as a rxn from parents, "Cool!  I never saw that before."

A few of my parents really liked the offense because they enjoyed how hard it was to find out who was running with the ball. I even got a compliment from an older official who told me he was glad to see somebody running an old school offense.

Once you learn to quit, it becomes a habit. -Vince Lombardi


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SingleWingGoombah
(@singlewinggoombah)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 2070
 

I have a unique story about the misdirection. 

My first year running Daves offense was a year I coached 2 teams.  Had been coaching 5th/6th grade for a long time, added a 3rd/4th grade team.  The 3/4 team was not very good, we still finished 5-4 though, but there is a team in our league that has won like 5 championships in a row at that level, and apparently all their parents and players had a good laugh at our squatting running backs.

Fast forward to this past season, I switch to a different program, couple of the players from the powerhouse team switched over as well (not recruited by me) good kids, but get a bit of grumbling about the squatting offense to start, from players and parents, whatever.  We finally get to a point where we are able to some live o vs d in practice.  I have one of the grumblers on defense.  Run Spinner 26 Power.  All of a sudden I hear a kid yell WAIT WHAT THE, as he tackles the 1 back for a nice 4 yard loss.  He comes up to me and he says, I swear he had the ball.  He took his whole KB Kill shot at the 1 back never realizing he never had the ball.  And the kid he tackled was the other kid from that powerhouse team, he was laughing so hard.  Grumbling stopped after that point.


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C-Rob
(@tso1696)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 1750
 

I have a unique story about the misdirection. 

My first year running Daves offense was a year I coached 2 teams.  Had been coaching 5th/6th grade for a long time, added a 3rd/4th grade team.  The 3/4 team was not very good, we still finished 5-4 though, but there is a team in our league that has won like 5 championships in a row at that level, and apparently all their parents and players had a good laugh at our squatting running backs.

Fast forward to this past season, I switch to a different program, couple of the players from the powerhouse team switched over as well (not recruited by me) good kids, but get a bit of grumbling about the squatting offense to start, from players and parents, whatever.  We finally get to a point where we are able to some live o vs d in practice.  I have one of the grumblers on defense.  Run Spinner 26 Power.  All of a sudden I hear a kid yell WAIT WHAT THE, as he tackles the 1 back for a nice 4 yard loss.  He comes up to me and he says, I swear he had the ball.  He took his whole KB Kill shot at the 1 back never realizing he never had the ball.  And the kid he tackled was the other kid from that powerhouse team, he was laughing so hard.  Grumbling stopped after that point.

Your post reminded me of one of my favorite videos:

On-line Youth Football Coaching Clinicshttp://www.coaches-clinic.com/


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CoachAJ-SC
(@coachaj-sc)
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Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 25
 

I'm coaching 10U for the first time this season, and we're considering having the backs in a more traditional 2-pt stance instead of crouching. I hate to admit it, but I do think it'll help with buy-in from coaches and even parents. Have any of you experienced poorer results by switching from crouching to upright?


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C-Rob
(@tso1696)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 1750
 

I'm coaching 10U for the first time this season, and we're considering having the backs in a more traditional 2-pt stance instead of crouching. I hate to admit it, but I do think it'll help with buy-in from coaches and even parents. Have any of you experienced poorer results by switching from crouching to upright?

I think you lose some of the deception, but that's all I can think of. 

On-line Youth Football Coaching Clinicshttp://www.coaches-clinic.com/


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CoachSugg
(@coachsugg)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 880
 

Based on Coach Cisar length of success, his offense was very successful before he "discovered" the crouch stance.  It definitely has some added advantages.  Each coach just has to decide if the advantages are worth it for them.

IMO
Advantage:  deception and a lower risk snap mishaps
Disadvantage:  more fatigue on players, slightly slower burst, gimmicky appearance

Kent Sugg
Bridge Creek, OK


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jrk5150
(@jrk5150)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 6431
 

I think you lose some of the deception, but that's all I can think of.

I'd only add the advantages of that low and slow snap, and that the kids are in a better position to handle a low snap.

Personally, I haven't had my kids "crouch", but I have had them get pretty low, like an infielder fielding a ground ball.  I've found that to be a decent middle ground.


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