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Reberson4
(@reberson4)
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August 25, 2020 4:19 pm  

Hello, 

working with a smaller line this year (our backs are extremely talented) . We used GOD and SAB  in the past but wanted to ask to see what others have utilized in the past with a smaller, relatively athletic,  line. Weight limit is 100lbs (8 and 9 year olds. Line probably averages 70-75lbs. It’s a very competitive league with a lot of athletes . 

thanks!

This topic was modified 2 months ago by Reberson4

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terrypjohnson
(@terrypjohnson)
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August 25, 2020 8:54 pm  

If you're small and athletic, I'd definitely recommend SAB and a lot of pulling. Even if your line is smaller, if they're moving fast, they'll still generate a ton of force (up to 2 1/2 to 3 times the amount depending on the angle.. and yes, I borrowed that from Coach Gregory). Likewise, an athletic puller is a tougher matchup for a linebacker or safety, who can usually get around bigger, slower tackles with minimal effort.

It's also worth mentioning that your line doesn't have to knock people 10 yards back. All they need to do is cause enough interference to allow the running backs to do their thing. Since it sounds like you've got a lot of talent at that position, I like your chances.

Have a great season!

Coach Terry

 

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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CoachSteel
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August 26, 2020 2:51 am  

We’re undersized up front every year and in my opinion a down blocking scheme is the way to go. We have used Gap-Down-Backer the last few years, but SAB ends up being pretty much the same thing. When your small up front it’s a whole lot easier for a kid to engage a larger player at an angle where he can move him down the LOS to open a hole vs asking a smaller kid to base block and drive another kid back off the LOS. Put your most athletic kids at guard. If your down blocking, you gotta pin and pull. 


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gumby_in_co
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August 26, 2020 9:55 am  

One Spring season, we fielded a team of mostly HS Freshmen in an 8th grade division. By rule, 9th graders under 160lbs could play. No one on our line that year was over 160. We had a 225lb 8th grader, but put him on the D-line.  About half the teams we faced had kids over 275 and just about every team but one had a full D-line of 225+. Our guys were routinely giving up 60+ pounds per man.

We ran mega splits and ran the table.

Most of the opponents' bigs were absolutely useless in space. Mega splits forces them to play in space.

Most of the opponents' bigs hated running Mega splits forces them to run.

As I've said multiple times, Mega Splits is not for everyone.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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August 26, 2020 11:04 am  
Posted by: @reberson4

We used GOD and SAB  in the past but wanted to ask to see what others have utilized in the past with a smaller, relatively athletic,  line. Weight limit is 100lbs (8 and 9 year olds. Line probably averages 70-75lbs.

The success of your o-line has less to do with size and more with what they're taught to do.  G/O/D and SAB are probably the best schemes for a run-based offense with tight/small splits.  Any sort of angle block will give the offensive man a leverage advantage over a defensive man.  G/O/D and SAB also fit well with pulling schemes, so there's the additional advantage.  G/O/D allows you to incorporate double teams, so there's another advantage.  If you've run G/O/D and SAB before, then you should already know how to teach it, thus another advantage.  I can't see why a coach would leave a gap/down-blocking scheme if incorporating a run-based offense.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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August 26, 2020 11:08 am  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Mega splits forces them to play in space.

No.  Mega spilts does not force anyone to play in space.  Some defenses just choose to do so because they believe they have to.  It's kinda like the 3-point stance.  Most coaches teach it because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachDP
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August 26, 2020 11:22 am  
Posted by: @coachsteel

We’re undersized up front every year and in my opinion a down blocking scheme is the way to go.

--It's a leverage-advantage, regardless of size.

We have used Gap-Down-Backer the last few years, but SAB ends up being pretty much the same thing.

--Agreed, if the o-lineman's "Backer" assignment is still on an angle, like "Gap" and "Down."

When your small up front it’s a whole lot easier for a kid to engage a larger player at an angle where he can move him down the LOS to open a hole vs asking a smaller kid to base block and drive another kid back off the LOS.

--If you're running the A or B-Gap, and your play side Guard, Tackle and End down block, how do you find an open B-Gap when the blocker outside that hole has blocked down on his gap?

Put your most athletic kids at guard. If your down blocking, you gotta pin and pull. 

--Your "most athletic kids" are put on the offensive line?

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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CoachSteel
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August 26, 2020 12:08 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @coachsteel

--If you're running the A or B-Gap, and your play side Guard, Tackle and End down block, how do you find an open B-Gap when the blocker outside that hole has blocked down on his gap?

Pull you guard. Center reaches to play side on 0/1 tech, tackle blocks down on 2/3 tech. In our down blocking scheme we’re not so much trying to run to a gap (between two linemen) but rather an area or aiming point on where the hole should develop. 

--Your "most athletic kids" are put on the offensive line?

lI guess I need to be more clear. Your most athletic offensive linemen. Better?

 

 

 


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
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August 26, 2020 12:44 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @reberson4

We used GOD and SAB  in the past but wanted to ask to see what others have utilized in the past with a smaller, relatively athletic,  line. Weight limit is 100lbs (8 and 9 year olds. Line probably averages 70-75lbs.

The success of your o-line has less to do with size and more with what they're taught to do.  G/O/D and SAB are probably the best schemes for a run-based offense with tight/small splits.  Any sort of angle block will give the offensive man a leverage advantage over a defensive man.  G/O/D and SAB also fit well with pulling schemes, so there's the additional advantage.  G/O/D allows you to incorporate double teams, so there's another advantage.  If you've run G/O/D and SAB before, then you should already know how to teach it, thus another advantage.  I can't see why a coach would leave a gap/down-blocking scheme if incorporating a run-based offense.

--Dave

What Dave said^^^  I would recommend the GOD/SAB for smaller, athletic linemen. 


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CoachDP
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August 26, 2020 1:25 pm  
Posted by: @coachsteel
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @coachsteel

--If you're running the A or B-Gap, and your play side Guard, Tackle and End down block, how do you find an open B-Gap when the blocker outside that hole has blocked down on his gap?

Pull you guard. Center reaches to play side on 0/1 tech, tackle blocks down on 2/3 tech. In our down blocking scheme we’re not so much trying to run to a gap (between two linemen) but rather an area or aiming point on where the hole should develop. 

--So you're pulling your play-side Guard?

 

--Your "most athletic kids" are put on the offensive line?

lI guess I need to be more clear. Your most athletic offensive linemen. Better?

--"Better" isn't for me to decide.  I was just trying to gain clarity on your approach and how it worked for you.  If you were indeed putting your best athletes on the LOS, I had a world of questions I wanted to ask.  lol

--Dave

 

 

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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August 26, 2020 2:15 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Mega splits forces them to play in space.

No.  Mega spilts does not force anyone to play in space.  Some defenses just choose to do so because they believe they have to.  It's kinda like the 3-point stance.  Most coaches teach it because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

--Dave

Tomayto, Tomahto. I can only go by what I've seen.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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32wedge
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August 26, 2020 2:51 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
It's kinda like the 3-point stance.  Most coaches teach it because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

--Dave

We are supposed to because Dave Cisar said to!  It’s in the book.  Case closed! 😆 


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
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August 26, 2020 4:00 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Mega splits forces them to play in space.

No.  Mega spilts does not force anyone to play in space.  Some defenses just choose to do so because they believe they have to.  It's kinda like the 3-point stance.  Most coaches teach it because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

--Dave

oh no no no no.

Things change...a lot. Unless of course you change your rules of alignment.  😎 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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Bob Goodman
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August 26, 2020 8:37 pm  
Posted by: @terrypjohnson

If you're small and athletic, I'd definitely recommend SAB and a lot of pulling. Even if your line is smaller, if they're moving fast, they'll still generate a ton of force (up to 2 1/2 to 3 times the amount depending on the angle.. and yes, I borrowed that from Coach Gregory). 

Angle blocking does not generate more force.  What it does is diminish the force your opponent exerts on you.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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North Carolina
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August 26, 2020 9:02 pm  
Posted by: @mahonz
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Mega splits forces them to play in space.

No.  Mega spilts does not force anyone to play in space.  Some defenses just choose to do so because they believe they have to.  It's kinda like the 3-point stance.  Most coaches teach it because they think that's what they're supposed to do.

--Dave

oh no no no no.

Things change...a lot. Unless of course you change your rules of alignment.  😎 

I never said, "things don't change."  What I said is that mega splits does not force a defense to play in space.  Any more than an offensive line lining up foot-to-foot forces a defense to put 11 in the box.  Most defenses may choose to play us that way, but how they play us is still up to them, not me.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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