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CoachJCJR
(@coachjcjr)
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Coaches,
I wanted to check with you all to see if any of you ran Cisar system at the PW level? Did any of you have any problems with running this system at this level?
I was wondering if I needed to add alittle more flavor to my offenseive play book this year in order to handle the older age group.
Will the wedge work at the PW level?
Did you have to make any major adjustments to the offense do to the level of play?

I look forward to your feed back.

Thanks
Coach jcjr


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Do you mean the Pop Warner PW level? It works great at that level. If you want to add more flavor add another series or 2. You will need more tags for adjustments as the kids get older. Wedge absolutely works with older kids. We ran Dave's sw and the dw in 2010 in midget(13-15) and scored a few tds at nationals with wedge. Wedge is a big part of our offense regardless of the level.
Jupiter won a Pop Warner national championship at midget in 2011 running Dave's system.
We never really had to make major adjustments to the offense. Dave recommends not using the buck series(I think) past a certain age but we never ran it anyway. I think if you are coaching the same group you can easily expand by adding another series and a few more tags and maybe open up the passing game a little. Just do not ever get away from 16 power imho. It is the play that makes the whole thing go.


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davecisar
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In my program the only year we lost more than 2 games at the 7-8th grade level (ages 12-14 or so) was year 1- when we had almost all 7th graders
We don't run buck wedge after about age 9

As the teams get older we expand the # of formations, adjustments and play series
It all depends on what you have and what you are trying to accomplish once you get past age 8 or as to what you want to have in the playbook
However- almost all of it is modular- when you add a series, there is so much carryover and for the most part the linemen don't have to learn anything new

Yes wedge works at that age group
Since about 2004 we have used it more as a constraint- to force defenses to play in certain formations and give up a couple of kids- we will run it 8-9 times in a row if you don't want to adapt to the constraint- but Im not one of those guys that runs it as the base of the offense

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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CoachRLG
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Yes, we run it at that age level and it works great.  One thing you may want to do is check out Dave's 303 material - well worth it!  There is a ton of stuff in there but the biggest thing I got from that was some of the little things you can do with the base plays and formations like the "special" call for your Right End, details on 14 Power and Iso and he does a great job of displaying when to make those blocking adjustments against different defensive fronts.  That right there is what put us over the top.  Yes, wedge works at that level.  One of our best plays this year was spin 32 wedge.  We pretty much just stayed in the base formation all season and didn't get to fancy, it was minor adjustments not major adjustments that really paid off.  I think we only threw the ball like 6 or 7 times the entire season, not because we didn't want to, it was because we could just grind and run on everybody and then next thing I know were up by 21 points and we aren't allowed to throw the ball after that big of a lead.


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CoachJCJR
(@coachjcjr)
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Yes, we run it at that age level and it works great.  One thing you may want to do is check out Dave's 303 material - well worth it!  There is a ton of stuff in there but the biggest thing I got from that was some of the little things you can do with the base plays and formations like the "special" call for your Right End, details on 14 Power and Iso and he does a great job of displaying when to make those blocking adjustments against different defensive fronts.  That right there is what put us over the top.  Yes, wedge works at that level.  One of our best plays this year was spin 32 wedge.  We pretty much just stayed in the base formation all season and didn't get to fancy, it was minor adjustments not major adjustments that really paid off.  I think we only threw the ball like 6 or 7 times the entire season, not because we didn't want to, it was because we could just grind and run on everybody and then next thing I know were up by 21 points and we aren't allowed to throw the ball after that big of a lead.

Thanks coach,
I was getting alittle worried. I do have Dave's 303 and have been reading over it like crazy for the past year. I wnated to make sure I understand all of the adjustments before I put it out there. Last year I ran Dave's system and average about 20 points a game with mid level players. But we had a about 3 games where we only scored 7 points in total. The remaining 5 we averaged about 30 points a game. This year I will be able to focus more on the offense so thats why i ask about adding more flavor for those bad boys in our group.


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CoachJCJR
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Topic starter  

In my program the only year we lost more than 2 games at the 7-8th grade level (ages 12-14 or so) was year 1- when we had almost all 7th graders
We don't run buck wedge after about age 9

As the teams get older we expand the # of formations, adjustments and play series
It all depends on what you have and what you are trying to accomplish once you get past age 8 or as to what you want to have in the playbook
However- almost all of it is modular- when you add a series, there is so much carryover and for the most part the linemen don't have to learn anything new

Yes wedge works at that age group
Since about 2004 we have used it more as a constraint- to force defenses to play in certain formations and give up a couple of kids- we will run it 8-9 times in a row if you don't want to adapt to the constraint- but Im not one of those guys that runs it as the base of the offense

Thanks Coach C,
I was asking because I struggled in about 3 games against our top 3 teams. I was able to come back and beat one of them in the play offs. Actually I would had to beat all three of them in order to advance in the playoffs. I noticed some of the things they had in common.  They would crowd the line of scrimmage and leave one safety back there to defend the pass. After restudying your material I think I have a plan now for teams that dare to not respect our passing game. Are there any other adjustments I could used for teams that starts to crowd the line of scrimmage and blitz from all directions?


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davecisar
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Coach,

Several different approaches you can take

Simplest is take players out of the Box to start with, with Omaha call
If the S slides over to cover him- the 16 pass blue is there
If the CB slides over- you've eliminated 1 defender- just make sure you can throw it to him- the 2 in Omaha

Max protecting and throwing quick hitters works well
16 pass blue white is nice- both the LE and WB go out on that- read the safety

18 Sweep Pass Stick- read the safety

Cross Pass left- the TE should be there all day

18 Screen looks nice- LE on seam, WB on corner, 2 back slides up to block- slides left and you release LG/C/RG to left, throw to the 2 on screen to weak side

Spread them out in the Spread SW and see how they align. As you know you can run all your base plays out of the Spread SW- if they don't align- you throw it. Smoke, Smoke and Go, Go, Cross and Smash are all good options

I also like no playing teams like that
Formationing and motion will often take teams out of blitzing if you want to take them out of that. Split/on/Omaha and your Jet Motion series plays may make sense. What you don't want to do is just sit in base and run your 4-5 basic plays. You have to throw, you need to formation and motion and go beyond the base 4-5 plays. 14 Power is another play I like- run inside outside pressure with numbers

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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Bruceja
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Coach Cisar,
I have not read anything on a screen game in your system but I love it! 


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davecisar
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Weve always run the Smoke screen to the Flanker

Im VERY leery of screens anywhere near the box in non select youth football
If you have a MPR type kid who doesn't penetrate and lags around- it can be a lucky Int for the defense

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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Weve always run the Smoke screen to the Flanker

Im VERY leery of screens anywhere near the box in non select youth football
If you have a MPR type kid who doesn't penetrate and lags around- it can be a lucky Int for the defense

Dave,
  We had this happen years ago. Jeff still won't run a middle screen to this day.  😀


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davecisar
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Rob,

Yep- look what I found the MPR says as he makes the Int ;D
We run it a little wider than middle and only if the scouting report shows the penetrate aggressively AND no MPR lineman is on the field. We don't run it a lot- kind of a key breaker type thing for us.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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CoachJCJR
(@coachjcjr)
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Coach Cisar,
I have not read anything on a screen game in your system but I love it!

Thanks Coach,
I will be ready the next time around. Since I have your ear, Can you explain the moma block by the center. I get the man on but I am alittle cloudy about the man away. Does my center suppose to block away from the play? I thought I read somehwere in the book that the center blocks down or crab block down.

Thanks in advance.


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davecisar
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The Center ONLY blocks MOMA on Trap and Reverse/Counter

Man on- man away from the play
So first any man with helmet between your shoulder pads
Man Away- if the play is going left- then man away, next man to your right

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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Bruceja
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Coach JR,
I think the book was talking about a particular situation in which coach Cisar told his center to just snap and crab because he was facing a stud nose guard. That may be what you were referring to.


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CoachJCJR
(@coachjcjr)
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Coach JR,
I think the book was talking about a particular situation in which coach Cisar told his center to just snap and crab because he was facing a stud nose guard. That may be what you were referring to.

Ok I think I am following but I am sorry if I am sounding like an air head. lol. I just wanted to make sure I am understanding what you are describing since I don't have my book right in front of me. So on traps and reverses my center needs to moma correct. So on the 16 power does my center GOD or MOMA? I think I was telling him to MOMA block on all plays. That will explain allot. Now that I think about I think I do remember seeing a diagram with the center blocking down on the power. I will take  look at my book as soon as I get my hands on it.


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