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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 3, 2019 4:58 pm  

I like how SpiderMac blocked this.

As the game goes on, keep an eye on the defensive end. Typically, after I hit a few big plays, teams would put the DE on the outside shoulder of the wing and the DT in a 6i or 6. When they do that, bust them with a power play (to which the blocking would look really similar).

Coach Terry

OP's league rules require the "DE" to be on the "TE's" shoulder. If I coached in a league with rules like that, I'd sweep on them all day and I'd probably need 3 decent blocks at most. That's what I love about "special rules". What's a "TE"? What's a "DE?" It would be really convenient to me if the league ensured that I'd see the same defensive alignment every time. It would save me a lot of scouting and we may go with 1 practice per week. Or maybe just skip practice and meet an hour before kickoff like they do in flag football.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17398
North Carolina
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June 3, 2019 5:33 pm  

Or maybe just skip practice and meet an hour before kickoff like they do in flag football.

^ This absolutely.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Riverside Knights 252
(@riverside-knights-252)
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June 4, 2019 3:51 am  

Thats what im saying. I'm in the weakest league in the eastern part of North Carolina. Furthermore, im in the basketball part of the state For example, Michael Jordan, Dominique Wilkins, Jerry Stackhouse, John Wall, Bam Bam, Brandon Ingram, Reggie Bullock and so on.... So kids around here are basketball minded, so the guys who make the rules, could care less. If I beat teams to the edge they spread their LB's out and the middle is wild open. Nevertheless, that why I want a simple, in the shotgun, youth friendly offense that will allow me to beat teams to the edge, pound them in the middle, and throw short routes. I've notice with 8u (defense) that kids react very slow to plays ran in the shotgun and they cannot catch up. 


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spidermac
(@spidermac)
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June 4, 2019 4:49 am  

that why I want a simple, in the shotgun, youth friendly offense that will allow me to beat teams to the edge, pound them in the middle, and throw short routes.

Beast...

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 4, 2019 4:55 am  

If I beat teams to the edge they spread their LB's out and the middle is wild open.

Absolutely. I think what a lot of guys are saying in their responses is that you need to block the linebackers. Base block and reach will work up to a point, but in your original sweep diagram, you have 2 double teams. One in the playside A gap and the other on the DE. Subtract the ball carrier and you are now down 3 blockers. In the same diagram, you can assume the 2 blocking backs will take the CB and the near LB. That leaves your RB to beat the S and the far LB.

A good way to "steal" blockers is to pull from the backside like SpiderMac suggested. Assume each lineman can handle his own guy until he proves he can't. Your backside TE can easily take care of the backside 5 tech. Hell, when I ran DW, that backside TE could handle anyone from his inside foot to the C by cutting/Superman blocking. 

I've notice with 8u (defense) that kids react very slow to plays ran in the shotgun and they cannot catch up.

Interesting. Mahonz and I have found the opposite to be true. If we want misdirection, we go under center and mesh. We go shotgun when we just want to pound it or out-block them.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Riverside Knights 252
(@riverside-knights-252)
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June 4, 2019 5:09 am  

Absolutely. I think what a lot of guys are saying in their responses is that you need to block the linebackers. Base block and reach will work up to a point, but in your original sweep diagram, you have 2 double teams. One in the playside A gap and the other on the DE. Subtract the ball carrier and you are now down 3 blockers. In the same diagram, you can assume the 2 blocking backs will take the CB and the near LB. That leaves your RB to beat the S and the far LB.

A good way to "steal" blockers is to pull from the backside like SpiderMac suggested. Assume each lineman can handle his own guy until he proves he can't. Your backside TE can easily take care of the backside 5 tech. Hell, when I ran DW, that backside TE could handle anyone from his inside foot to the C by cutting/Superman blocking. 

Interesting. Mahonz and I have found the opposite to be true. If we want misdirection, we go under center and mesh. We go shotgun when we just want to pound it or out-block them.

Your right.. That was just one way I  created the play. I would send the TE to the second level. Pulling would be something that we would have to work on. Just two of practice during the week during the season (League rules) puts us in a bind.,


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 4, 2019 5:14 am  

Beast...

Yup.

E G C G T T E
              Q H Z
      S

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 4, 2019 5:17 am  

Your right.. That was just one way I  created the play. I would send the TE to the second level. Pulling would be something that we would have to work on. Just two of practice during the week during the season (League rules) puts us in a bind.,

Don't overthink it. Don't treat your pulling G as a lineman who needs to be taught some advanced skill. Think of him as a fullback who happens to line up on the LOS. Get in your stance, get out of your stance, run from A to B, block the first ugly to show.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Riverside Knights 252
(@riverside-knights-252)
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June 4, 2019 6:13 am  

Don't overthink it. Don't treat your pulling G as a lineman who needs to be taught some advanced skill. Think of him as a fullback who happens to line up on the LOS. Get in your stance, get out of your stance, run from A to B, block the first ugly to show.

I thank God for people like you and this website!!


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17398
North Carolina
High School
June 4, 2019 10:57 am  

Pulling would be something that we would have to work on. Just two of practice during the week during the season (League rules) puts us in a bind.

Pulling is something that needs to be worked on.  As is tackling.  As is blocking.  As is...whatever it is that you need to be good at.  That being said, pulling is running.  They already know how to run.  To make it even easier, put them in a 2-point stance.  That'll save you the time it takes to teach a 3-point.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Riverside Knights 252
(@riverside-knights-252)
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June 4, 2019 11:51 am  

Pulling is something that needs to be worked on.  As is tackling.  As is blocking.  As is...whatever it is that you need to be good at.  That being said, pulling is running.  They already know how to run.  To make it even easier, put them in a 2-point stance.  That'll save you the time it takes to teach a 3-point.

--Dave

Ok so the TE can superman block, but he cant cut block right??.. So tell me the deference in a cut block and a superman block.


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spidermac
(@spidermac)
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June 4, 2019 12:23 pm  

Depends on what rules you are playing by...make sure you know before you start having kids cutting...

A Cut Block is a block below the waist...essentially, cutting the defender down....and each Authority (NCAA, The Fed, Texas UIL, etc) has specific rules about when, where and how you can cut block...you can never cut a guy who is engaged with another blocker above the waist, high/low...this is a chop block, and illegal (and should be)… We have our cutters call "AXE, AXE!) during the pre-snap line calls so in theory we won't have a hi-lo block...this was with my last group of kids...won't start teaching my 8 year olds to cut block just yet 😛

The Superman Block, as it was explained to me is essentially, getting your shoulder pad on the defenders hip...in theory, above the waist....now that explanation could be wrong, just how it was explained to me...we don't attempt the Superman Block...we cover for our pullers a bit differently, because all we need is a split second to get the ball out of the back field, well maybe a little bit more, but my take is if a back side dlineman runs down my ball guy, we put the wrong guy back there...and he is tip-toeing...sorry, wandering...

We bucket step and get our body across the front of the bad guy we are trying to cut off...let me see if I can make this a bit clearer...

The way I drew it up, your Back Side TE is going to be attempting to block that 5 Tech (outside shade of the OT). To help him out...he is recessed as deep as allowed by the rules...at the snap, as the pullers leave, he is going to step flat down the line and get in his way...he may have to turn that lateral step into a bucket step, depending on how fast the 5 tech is....doesn't have to be a devastating block...just get enough of him so he cannot run the play down from behind...

None of them suck, they just haven't found what the kid is good at yet.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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June 4, 2019 12:39 pm  

Depends on what rules you are playing by...make sure you know before you start having kids cutting...

A Cut Block is a block below the waist...essentially, cutting the defender down....and each Authority (NCAA, The Fed, Texas UIL, etc) has specific rules about when, where and how you can cut block...you can never cut a guy who is engaged with another blocker above the waist, high/low...this is a chop block, and illegal (and should be)… We have our cutters call "AXE, AXE!) during the pre-snap line calls so in theory we won't have a hi-lo block...this was with my last group of kids...won't start teaching my 8 year olds to cut block just yet 😛

The Superman Block, as it was explained to me is essentially, getting your shoulder pad on the defenders hip...in theory, above the waist....now that explanation could be wrong, just how it was explained to me...we don't attempt the Superman Block...we cover for our pullers a bit differently, because all we need is a split second to get the ball out of the back field, well maybe a little bit more, but my take is if a back side dlineman runs down my ball guy, we put the wrong guy back there...and he is tip-toeing...sorry, wandering...

We bucket step and get our body across the front of the bad guy we are trying to cut off...let me see if I can make this a bit clearer...

The way I drew it up, your Back Side TE is going to be attempting to block that 5 Tech (outside shade of the OT). To help him out...he is recessed as deep as allowed by the rules...at the snap, as the pullers leave, he is going to step flat down the line and get in his way...he may have to turn that lateral step into a bucket step, depending on how fast the 5 tech is....doesn't have to be a devastating block...just get enough of him so he cannot run the play down from behind...

Superman as I learned it/taught it is to dive on the ground and do a push up. If the defender wants to keep coming, he risks tripping over the blocker. A very passive way of cutting off pursuit. I quit using it when I saw a beast of a DT just hurdle my guy and crush the play.  ???

I agree with you that you don't even need to block below the waste. We used to just wash the 5 tech down. At one point, we split out the TE and didn't even bother with a back side block.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17398
North Carolina
High School
June 4, 2019 6:31 pm  

Ok so the TE can superman block, but he cant cut block right??.. So tell me the deference in a cut block and a superman block.

Whether you call it a "Superman" block, a "shoeshine" block or a "scramble" block, it is a block that takes place below the defender's waist.  If it takes place within the FBZ (Free Blocking Zone), then it's legal (as long as you understand the length & width of the FBZ, that the ball still has to been in the FBZ when the block takes place and that the cut block has to be on a defender who's already in the FBZ when the ball is snapped).  All that being said, most officials do not recognize a cut block within the FBZ as a legal block, because most officials are idiots.  They fail to understand that with foot-to-foot non-splits, our Tight Ends are within 4 yards of the football.

That is NOT to be confused with a (hi-low) chop block which is not legal, regardless of where it takes place.  Chop blocks are a risk when the Center blocks away on a 1 or 2 Technique and the TE executes his Superman block. 

Because refs are more likely to invent their own penalties on the Superman block, as well as the risk of the Center and TE inadvertently chop-blocking a backside 1 or 2-Technique, we've given up on having the backside Tight End cut/scramble/shoeshine/Superman block. 

We either pull the backside G and T, while leaving the backside TE fill for the BST, or we pull the backside G and TE, while leaving the backside T home, or we pull the backside G, T and TE and no one fills.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Dusty Ol Fart
(@youth-coach)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 7614
Illinois
Other
Club Admin
June 4, 2019 8:31 pm  

I tried to say similar thing as DP says, without the eloquence, this afternoon.  Deleted it

I stopped teaching Cut Off Blocks (Proper Term) a few years ago.  Why?  As DP points out, mostly because of the Penalties incurred!  I get it, I know it, I dislike the flags! 

I also noted that most Youth Coaches have not a clue, how to teach the block correctly.  As such most kids cant execute the block right and either get hurt or inflict injury attempting it. 

Yes its below the Waist!  No, Its not AT OR BELOW THE KNEES!  The Proper "Aiming Point" is the Play Side Thigh Pad or Hip!  Far too many kids diving at shins or collapsing on the back of the calf (Legs)!  That's PURE GARBAGE!  If that's how you teach it, or how your kids execute it,  you have no business using it! 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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