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Reberson4
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In years past I’ve used GOD with great success but this year we are extremely weak on our line . We have the best two backs (two up backs) I’ve ever coached but we legitimately can’t get our line to fire out and , to be honest, they don’t seem have a lot of fight in them. Obviously the first plan is to move some kids in who may not be the best physically but seem to have the want to fight . The issue is there aren’t many that do. I was thinking of simplifying the blocking scheme and using SAB. I can probably use our BB at tackle or end and put a kid at BB that is a notch below but still very capable (he’s currently an end). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I should mention er are very undersized up front as well

 

thanks

This topic was modified 10 months ago 2 times by Reberson4

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COACHDT
(@hawk2018)
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1.Are you balanced or unbalanced? Do you flip if unbalanced?

2. Do you use shoulder or hands blocking?

3. Do you have player requirements for each spot on the line?  How do you assign positions?

4. Are they in 2 point or 3 point stances?

 


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Reberson4
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Posted by: @hawk2018

1.Are you balanced or unbalanced? Do you flip if unbalanced?  We go unbalanced 80% of the time

2. Do you use shoulder or hands blocking? Hands

3. Do you have player requirements for each spot on the line?  How do you assign positions? We don’t really have the luxury this year but we use relatively athletic guards. Bigger kids (we are small compared to other teams comparatively) at tackle. Ends are smaller kids who are good athletes 

4. Are they in 2 point or 3 point stances? 3 point stance 

 

 


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @reberson4

In years past I’ve used GOD with great success but this year we are extremely weak on our line .

--Not sure what blocking rules have to do with your success, or lack thereof. 

We have the best two backs (two up backs) I’ve ever coached but we legitimately can’t get our line to fire out and , to be honest, they don’t seem have a lot of fight in them. Obviously the first plan is to move some kids in who may not be the best physically but seem to have the want to fight .

--We play who's willing to fight to for their spot, fight for their rep, fight to get to play.  If you want in, get in.  If you're not fighting to get reps, expect to stand on the sideline on game day.  I don't put a premium on size or talent.  

The issue is there aren’t many that do. I was thinking of simplifying the blocking scheme and using SAB.

--You've identified your issue as "fight."  Changing the blocking scheme has nothing to do with that.  If you believe their lack of "fight" has to do with having to "think," then SAB could simplify that process, but successful blocking is about execution.  Scheme doesn't fix poor blocking.  Offensive line issues usually have to do with the amount and type of emphasis that is given to the offensive line.

I can probably use our BB at tackle or end and put a kid at BB that is a notch below but still very capable (he’s currently an end). Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I should mention er are very undersized up front as well.

--Don't know what you mean by "undersized."  Are they short in stature?  Light in weight?  Being short gives them leverage.  Being light gives them quickness.  An ineffective offensive line can be the result of almost innumerable things.  Without knowing what you teach (fundamentals), how you teach it (fundamentals), or what your approach is to physicality(?), it's impossible to diagnose.  I do know that GOD is no better (or worse) of a line scheme than SAB.  It depends on what you're looking for.  GOD gives you double teams; SAB doesn't (accept for inadvertent ones).  SAB may be an easier teach (it's certainly a simpler teach), but the scheme has to fit what you run.  If you like running the ball inside of your Tight End, SAB may not be for you.  If you're an edge running team, or like running Power off of your Tight End, then SAB may be a good fit.  But one size does not fit all, even with a small playbook.  That's why we still have to teach Wedge, Trap, Part, Down, Reach and rule blocking.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @reberson4

can’t get our line to fire out

I mean no disrespect by this, but "fire out" is as tired and useless as "block somebody", "you gotta tackle/block" and "watch the ball". When I neglect "get off", I have "get off" problems. I have an easy fix for "get off" problems. I tell them to get their 2nd step down as fast as humanly possible. Then I demo it and set up drills so they can demonstrate how fast they can get their 2nd step down. This goes in with all the other "technique" coaching points, like: Duck feet, all cleats in the grass, buzz your feet and stomp your heels. But, to fix "get off", I stress getting the 2nd step in the grass as fast as humanly possible. Telling a player to "fire off" accomplishes nothing. Telling a group of players to "fire off" is even worse. Might as well grab a folding chair and sit with the parents and yell footballisms from the sidelines. 

and , to be honest, they don’t seem have a lot of fight in them. Obviously the first plan is to move some kids in who may not be the best physically but seem to have the want to fight. The issue is there aren’t many that do.

Again, no disrespect intended, but who's job is it to put fight in them? Were they expected to bring "fight" with them along with their physical and proof of grade? If they don't have fight in them and your replace them with kids that do, what do you do with the fightless players? If you want an o-line to have fight in them, then instill it.  How?  My approach is to be loud, intense and coaching with my hair on fire. Someone smarter than me once told me that a team tends to take on the personality of their coach. Now, I can be a bit much for a 9 year old, so I do my very best to be 80/20 positive to negative with my fire and intensity. Maybe that should be closer to 90/10, but I'm a work in progress.

Also, I aim to make everything competitive. EVERYTHING. Every drill is loud, intense and physical. If I feel a rep doesn't meet our standards, I reload the same group and make them do it again. I explain why a player failed and tell him how to fix it. We repeat until he succeeds. If I don't know why he failed, how in the world is he expected to know? 

I was thinking of simplifying the blocking scheme and using SAB.

Not my style, but I see where you're coming from. I used to be a JJ Lawson disciple. I learned a lot from him. I used to buy into the "TKO is better because they don't have to think, so they are more aggressive." Now, I believe that while knowing is confidence and confidence breeds aggression, it's simply harder to coach certain schemes to the point of instilling confidence. But that's why we get to blow the whistle. Our jobs are not easy. 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I should mention er are very undersized up front as well

Being undersized seems like a reason to teach GOD blocking. I tell my line every day that it's MUCH easier to block a strong guy than a fast guy. Speed on the o-line can neutralize size. Size has a harder time neutralizing speed. You end up doing something silly like going to zero splits. 😆 .

Anyway, on September 20, here were my o-line problems:

  • Inconsistent knowledge. Lots of "I don't know"s
  • Short attention span. Lack of interest
  • Inconsistent effort
  • O-linemen constantly telling me what they'd rather be doing or asking if they could do that. Mainly they want to play defense.

Essentially, they didn't care. I felt that the teaching/learning ratio was 90/10 toward teaching. One practice, I decided to "make them care". I stated a simple rule. "Proper blocking fit is wrists together, thumbs up, elbows in your belly button." 5 seconds later, I would ask them to tell me the proper run fit. When no one could answer, or would even try to answer, or were watching a puppy 100 yards away, I sent them bear crawling 20 yards and back. I planned on doing this for a half hour until they started to care. To my surprise, they came back breathing hard, eyes all big volunteering to answer the question . . . verbatim. I had their 100% undivided attention. At that moment, I realized that the problem was me. As I stated in another thread, I failed to make playing the o-line "special", so I went about fixing me.

On the advice of G8tors and a few others, I implemented the following:

  • Snacks and toys that I hand out only to the linemen after practice, but in full view of the "skill" players.
  • The Golden Hammer.

I watch film and determine the winner based on who consistently blocked the right guy, consistently used the right technique and consistently was on him when the whistle blew. Hammer winner is announced the first practice after the game. Winner gets his name on the hammer with the date and opponent, his picture taken with the hammer, carries the hammer onto the game field for the next game and runs through our banner carrying the hammer. Whoever wins the hammer the most over the season keeps it forever.

I am also effusive with my praise of them and selective with my criticism. I stopped trying to win every battle at once and instead appreciated the battles that I did win. Now, here we are, October 10 and we've had 2 consecutive games where the o-line performed magnificently.

Long winded way of saying that my advice is to install some fight instead of changing personnel or blocking schemes.

 

 

 

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co
  • The Golden Hammer.

I watch film and determine the winner based on who consistently blocked the right guy, consistently used the right technique and consistently was on him when the whistle blew. Hammer winner is announced the first practice after the game. Winner gets his name on the hammer with the date and opponent, his picture taken with the hammer, carries the hammer onto the game field for the next game and runs through our banner carrying the hammer. Whoever wins the hammer the most over the season keeps it forever.

I am also effusive with my praise of them and selective with my criticism. I stopped trying to win every battle at once and instead appreciated the battles that I did win. Now, here we are, October 10 and we've had 2 consecutive games where the o-line performed magnificently.

Long winded way of saying that my advice is to install some fight instead of changing personnel or blocking schemes.

Good stuff!

This is one of the things I'm weakest at, and have the least enthusiasm for, in coaching and teaching: grading.  I know I'm not alone, many teacher hate grading.  When a player does a rep I'll often give specific feedback, sometimes general evaluation too.  But when I'm asked at the end of a session, a week, or a season how a player did, I feel I'm at a relative loss compared to many coaches.  I'd like to get better at grading, and I know I've improved a little over my coaching career, but since I haven't made a point of trying to improve that aspect specifically, my improvement hasn't been a big jump.


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gumby_in_co
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@bob-goodman

Bob, it takes a certain kind of lunatic to watch every offensive play . . . 6 times or more . . . in slow motion.

This hammer thing has had a profound impact on not just how they play, but how they approach their craft. The first time, I watched film vs a team who has never lost. I took a very objective approach. Each player on each play could score a maximum of 3 points. Did they block the right guy? Were they effective? Were they on him until the end of the play? 3 of my players consistently blocked the right guy. 2 of them were consistently effective. 1 blocked his man until the whistle, or until his man was on the ground on 5 plays. He won easily because the next best performer had 1 play where he was on his man until the whistle. The next practice where I announced the winner, I fielded about a dozen questions. Granted, they were 9 year old questions, but I could see they were engaged. I told them that the winner simply was on his man at the end of the play 5 times, so had 5 "3-point" plays. We scrimmaged the next Monday and I just asked that if they do nothing else, please try to be on your man until the whistle. The results were jaw dropping. It was easier to count the plays where one guy wasn't on his man, or sprinting to try to get back on him.

The next game was utter domination by our o-line and backs. The only issue was a coaching issue where I taught a bad method of dealing with blitzing LBs. So I took a more subjective approach. 2 of my struggling linemen had absolutely phenomenal games doing 2 different types of blocks. One took the offensive Crunch bar, so I gave it to the other one, but didn't give that as the reason why.

As of today, they are engaged and interested. 

 

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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32wedge
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

it takes a certain kind of lunatic to watch every offensive play . . . 6 times or more . . . in slow motion.

 

I prefer to be called crazy.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @32wedge
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

it takes a certain kind of lunatic to watch every offensive play . . . 6 times or more . . . in slow motion.

 

I prefer to be called crazy.

Didn't have to go through each play 6 times. 1 kid did his job consistently. He gets the hammer.

  • Y blocking out consistently. I caught him once during the game, so the conversation went like this.

Me: "Dude, I promised myself that I wouldn't ask 'why' anymore, but I simply have to know. Why are you blocking out?" 

Dude: "Coach, I thought B had the inside guy."

No. For that to happen, B would have had to block out as well. So "the inside guy" had a free shot at the RB. Good thing he couldn't tackle.

  • Y and long guard "blocking" by grabbing their wrist and shoulder butting the D-lineman. Sort of like if they were trying to force open a locked door. 
  • T identifying the man to the inside. Looking him dead in his eyes and pointing at his heart . . . then blocking out and doubling with the power tackle.

So on the advice of my other OL coach, I am going back through the film and making note of the clips so I can bring my Chromebook to practice and show them a) what they did and b) what the consequence was.

Why even practice?

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Bob, it takes a certain kind of lunatic to watch every offensive play . . . 6 times or more . . . in slow motion.

If you have 7 men on the LOS, then it takes watching it 7 times...

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Bob, it takes a certain kind of lunatic to watch every offensive play . . . 6 times or more . . . in slow motion.

If you have 7 men on the LOS, then it takes watching it 7 times...

--Dave

X receiver is someone else's problem. 😆 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co

X receiver is someone else's problem. 😆 

I don't even know what that is.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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mahonz
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Posted by: @gumby_in_co
Posted by: @32wedge
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

it takes a certain kind of lunatic to watch every offensive play . . . 6 times or more . . . in slow motion.

 

I prefer to be called crazy.

Didn't have to go through each play 6 times. 1 kid did his job consistently. He gets the hammer.

  • Y blocking out consistently. I caught him once during the game, so the conversation went like this.

Me: "Dude, I promised myself that I wouldn't ask 'why' anymore, but I simply have to know. Why are you blocking out?" 

Dude: "Coach, I thought B had the inside guy."

No. For that to happen, B would have had to block out as well. So "the inside guy" had a free shot at the RB. Good thing he couldn't tackle.

  • Y and long guard "blocking" by grabbing their wrist and shoulder butting the D-lineman. Sort of like if they were trying to force open a locked door. 
  • T identifying the man to the inside. Looking him dead in his eyes and pointing at his heart . . . then blocking out and doubling with the power tackle.

So on the advice of my other OL coach, I am going back through the film and making note of the clips so I can bring my Chromebook to practice and show them a) what they did and b) what the consequence was.

Why even practice?

The entire Offense only needs to watch the first two plays from scrimmage. What a mess. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

X receiver is someone else's problem. 😆 

I don't even know what that is.

--Dave

It's a position they created for a new fad called the "forward pass".

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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terrypjohnson
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@gumby_in_co - Then we have to watch it seven times (or more) to watch Coach Terry say, "Yes, sir" when the pop pass is completed 🙂

 

Fight 'em until Hell freezes over, then fight 'em on the ice -- Dutch Meyer


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