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Side Saddle Unbalanced Spread


Troy
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Tinkering with this look. "QB" 2/2 for 39 yards and a TD with "Key 3."

 

 

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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Troy
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The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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DKTurtle
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Comparing the side saddle player to a sniffer who is a step behind the OG, what are the advantages and disadvantages to each? I've never seen a team use side saddle in person and had never heard of it until I got on this website. 

Practice makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @dkturtle

Comparing the side saddle player to a sniffer who is a step behind the OG, what are the advantages and disadvantages to each? I've never seen a team use side saddle in person and had never heard of it until I got on this website. 

I've faced quite a few UBSW teams over the years. The side saddle is similar to the "short snap" that most UBSW teams use to wedge and a few other misdirection plays. Having defended Troy's offense literally a dozen times (not counting scrimmages), the side saddle is MUCH more deceptive. For most plays, the ball is snapped under the BB's top hand and goes to the 1 back. When Troy runs his wedge or BB Power/Sweep, the C snaps it right into the BB's top hand and the BB closes on the ball with his bottom hand. Extremely deceptive, especially since his other backs carry out fakes probably better than any team I've ever faced.

Disadvantage? Mahonz and I have had dozens of conversations about this. Sometimes, his BB will have to block in the opposite direction he's facing. Mahonz and I would consider this to be a disadvantage, but it doesn't seem to bother Troy's BB in the least.

I'll say one thing about this season. I've seen more bad snaps this season than maybe all the other seasons combined. His C seems to "forget" who he's supposed to snap to once in a great while. But I think this kid is a new C, so I don't think it's a disadvantage inherent to the system. 

Mahonz and I ran side saddle one Spring. We didn't commit to it, but it was part of a package we called "Cowboy". The major flaw in our Cowboy was that our side saddle back would get amped up when it was his turn to run the ball and he'd forget his footwork and just take off like it was recess. Still, we probably scored 1 out of 3 Cowboy plays when we snapped to the sidesaddle back.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @troy

You can legally block downfield on a pass play any time if the pass is completed in or behind the neutral zone, or once the pass is thrown regardless of where it goes.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @dkturtle

Comparing the side saddle player to a sniffer who is a step behind the OG, what are the advantages and disadvantages to each? I've never seen a team use side saddle in person and had never heard of it until I got on this website. 

A forward-facing sniffer might be close enough to reach for a hand-to-hands snap, or might have to take a short toss.  If he's close enough to take a handed snap then it's very similar to sidesaddle.  I've seen some compromise between these, with the sniffer at about a 45 degree angle in.

The advantages of sidesaddle are primarily when he takes the snap.  First, from that position it's easy for a player who's never played QB to learn to take the snap, because the snapper's not completely blocking his view of it.  He gets at least a glimpse of the snapper's arm movement, and he takes the ball primarily against his dominant hand, provided he lines up that way.  And if he does muff the snap, chances are good that it lands where he can see it, rather than either bouncing forward where the snapper blocks his view of it, or winding up behind him.

If you run jet sweep handed by the sidesaddle back, again if he's lined up the right way, he can see the motion back coming and call for the snap at just the right moment.  And then to transfer the ball to the jet runner, he barely has to move it from under the snapper's butt, if you do the series as reach-take/fake.

On many plays, if the sidesaddle back takes the snap, as a result of that quarter turn he's already lined up in, he's a step or so ahead of where he would've been on various wing T style plays or if he fades to pass.  Quick pitch, quick pass, and belly are examples of plays he has a head start on.  If he doesn't take the snap, he's facing a good way for kickout and trap blocks to that side; unfortunately the price is that he's not in as easy a position for trap and kickout blocks to the other side as a forward-facing sniffer would be.

If you want to give a backwards handoff to a pulling guard or tackle, it's easer from the sidesaddle position because the lineman can go behind him easier.

He's also better hidden from the coach on the opposing sideline, especially if someone else calls the signals when they're lined up.


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Troy
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@bob-goodman

We started as a short snap to BB, but found the hand snap more reliable and had quicker "get off."

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Troy
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@bob-goodman

Appreciate your call-out, here.

I'm trying to avoid the complexity of teaching when to block down field and when not to for my OLs. (KISS whenever possible.) Plus, refs are inconsistent and not generally aware of all the moving parts. I always assume I'll get burned by their misinterpretations.

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Bob Goodman
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There are some other systems in which I'd like to see sidesaddle tried.  One is the so-called triple spin from the Tulsa box.  The way people have it now, to get the 3rd back into the place where all 3 have their backs to the defense for a moment and the ball is exchanged, they've been motioning one of the sniffers by turning him around and taking a step or so.  Seems to me the pre-snap motion could be eliminated if that back were sidesaddle.

You could add jet in both directions to the Wyatt wildcat if you made both the 1 and 3 back sidesaddle.  Even run a kind of weave with the 2 and 4 backs seeming to cross paths at the mesh point, but actually only one is meshing and the other runs behind.  Kind of a poor man's full spin series, no spinning required.  Couldn't motion both in American rules, though, so not as quick hitting as I'd like unless both wings are cheated inward, pigeon-toed T style.


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @troy

I'm trying to avoid the complexity of teaching when to block down field and when not to for my OLs. 

I coach the hell out of it and STILL have kids downfield when they shouldn't be. That's why I didn't get worked up about your WR51 film where their WR basically tackled your CB whenever they ran that deep wheel route. As soon as I saw it, I recognized what is going on. The wideout has been blocking the CB all game, then when a pass is called, he doesn't get the memo and continues to block. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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coachbrooks822
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Good Morning Coaches, I came across this post regarding this series, and I was hoping if there’s more info or perhaps a series of plays that I can use, am I’m entering our semi-final game this weekend against a very quick but undisciplined team. We’ve been running Dave Cizar’s system the entire season and I think this would be a nice wrinkle to what we’re already been running.

Thanks in Advance


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gumby_in_co
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As far as I know, Troy is the only one I know running this. I stole his side saddle a few years ago and used it in a Spring league. I liked it, but it wasn't the "magic wand" I expected it to be. Like everything else in football, you have to work on it. Having run it gives me a real appreciation for just how good his BB is. 

Troy runs all of the "Sainted 6". At this point, I almost feel qualified to be his OC. I was running his offense at my defense last week and my other coaches were asking, "How do you remember all this?". Familiarity, I suppose.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Troy
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@coachbrooks822

I don't have a playbook for the "spread" variant as I recently drew it up in the dirt with the Evergreen, CO HS coach a couple weeks ago.  They run spread and call it "Treo/Lock." They have 3 screen looks and a fake lock and go. We just run the "3" which is the bubble to the inside receiver. Wedge is available as well as QB sweep with a crackback by the middle receiver (the "2"). We've run "power" in practice using the side saddle to kick out DE and the "2" to crack the playside OLB. Huge holes in practice. But it's... you know... practice.

I am a big fan of Cisar, Don Markham, and Hugh Wyatt but was initially corrupted by John T. Reed, hence the no-crouch look and deeper TB ("qb". I think it would work with Cisar style as well. It would be more deceptive but your TB might have to go backwards to go forwards.

Below is a link to my Side Saddle UBSW video playbook. The plays are always getting tweaked to adjust to the defenses we see thus the vids don't always perfectly match. Thanks for asking. I love evangelizing my "baby."

Side Saddle UBSW

The longer I coach, the lesser I know.


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gumby_in_co
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I'm probably going to regret this one day, but I'm going to have a conversation with Troy about TKO. 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @coachbrooks822

Good Morning Coaches, I came across this post regarding this series, and I was hoping if there’s more info or perhaps a series of plays that I can use, am I’m entering our semi-final game this weekend against a very quick but undisciplined team. We’ve been running Dave Cizar’s system the entire season and I think this would be a nice wrinkle to what we’re already been running.

I don't have the spread version, but my first question is, can your pulling guard make the kickout block on 16 power?  If so, then reposition your 3 back sidesaddle on the short side, facing the 4 back.  Now on 16 your 3 back's assignment will be what the pulling guard's would have been.

Then you can add jet series by motioning the 4 back across.  To run jet, snap to the 3 back, who pulls the ball out from under the snapper's butt and lets the 4 back do a reach-take.  But jet will be useless by itself, because you're going around what is normally the weaker edge under Dave Cisar's system, with weaker blocking, so he's only going to get around that edge if the defense weakens itself on that side.  But then you'll have a 25 power where the 4 back lets himself get tackled after faking the reach-take, and the 3 back (pivoting around after the 3 back goes past), 1 back, and pulling guard clean up what's left.  And 16 and 18, minus the 4 back (who's motioned away), to keep the defense honest.

Plus, if your 3 back can pass, a pop pass to the long side end slanting inside shallow, or just looking in on a fly.


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