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Snap on the Wedge  

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COACHDT
(@hawk2018)
Copper
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 33
September 16, 2020 12:18 pm  

We are a balanced single wing team.  We run a wedge out of a balanced Cisar single wing formation to our BB and to our 2B.  Our backs are not crouched down with finger tips on the ground.  Our 3b is in a 2 point stance.  Our center is the apex of the wedge, so he must snap and take 2 steps quickly.  He uses a two handed snap with thumbs lapping each other.  We have been extremely inconsistant with the snap to the BB who lines up to the right of the right guard and takes one step back and to his left.  His helmet ends up even with the centers right foot. When it is bad it fires off into our bb face.  We lost 2 fumbles in our last game because of this.  Our centers head is up on all his snaps.  Is there any coaching points to help him get this soft snap more consistent.  I would say we are 50/50 at the moment . We practice 3 days a week and dedicate 5 to 10 minutes a practice on the wedge.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4148
September 16, 2020 1:26 pm  

It seems like it should be easy, right? We had a rock star center for a number of years. He snapped with a QB under him and in gun. Smart as a whip, aggressive, won our offensive MVP in a championship season. He could do it all . . . .except snap diagonally to a guy 3 feet away. So we gave up on it.

Couple of ideas, but no idea if they would work.

1) Seems like your C might be jacked up to be the apex of the wedge. Try calming him down?

2) If he can't won't calm down, consider moving the apex to the long guard, so your C doesn't feel rushed to set the wedge.EDIT: Oops, I see that you are balanced.

3) If the 3B is to his right, have him step with his right foot as he snaps. Left foot if he's to the left.

This post was modified 1 month ago by gumby_in_co

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
Silver Moderator
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 695
Virginia
Middle School
Only / Head Coach
September 16, 2020 1:45 pm  
Posted by: @hawk2018

We are a balanced single wing team.  We run a wedge out of a balanced Cisar single wing formation to our BB and to our 2B.  Our backs are not crouched down with finger tips on the ground.  Our 3b is in a 2 point stance.  Our center is the apex of the wedge, so he must snap and take 2 steps quickly.  He uses a two handed snap with thumbs lapping each other.  We have been extremely inconsistant with the snap to the BB who lines up to the right of the right guard and takes one step back and to his left.  His helmet ends up even with the centers right foot. When it is bad it fires off into our bb face.  We lost 2 fumbles in our last game because of this.  Our centers head is up on all his snaps.  Is there any coaching points to help him get this soft snap more consistent.  I would say we are 50/50 at the moment . We practice 3 days a week and dedicate 5 to 10 minutes a practice on the wedge.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I assume based on your balanced line that you are pulling the back side guard on strong side power plays and possibly pull both guards on sweep. My question is what are you gaining by having the 3 back line up right of the right guard and then move closer when you are snapping to him? If you are pulling that right guard on powers and counters, I can see staggering them.

I line my 3 back directly behind the guard just deep enough to get a good snap from the center. My deep backs are in a more vertical 2 point stance but I like that 3 back low so he can take the snap easier. The higher he stands, the farther back he has to be.

I pull the Inside Tackle on counters which gives me a stagger with the 3 back and also allows me to use a big body at Strong Guard to lead the wedge and a quicker puller at IT to pull on counter. I move that SG over to the Quick side to give a balanced line and he is still the apex of my wedge. So we have backs lined to the right and the wedge forms to the left of center. Wedge is my home run play. We have run it with the apex at the center and at the 2nd man over from the center.


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COACHDT
(@hawk2018)
Copper
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 33
September 16, 2020 2:18 pm  
Posted by: @32wedge

Correct me if I am wrong, but I assume based on your balanced line that you are pulling the back side guard on strong side power plays and possibly pull both guards on sweep. My question is what are you gaining by having the 3 back line up right of the right guard and then move closer when you are snapping to him? If you are pulling that right guard on powers and counters, I can see staggering them.

We pull our right guard on plays to the left. We pull our left guard on plays to the right. We do not pull both guards at the same time. The stager helps with the counter timing and prevents him from running into the snap.

I line my 3 back directly behind the guard just deep enough to get a good snap from the center. My deep backs are in a more vertical 2 point stance but I like that 3 back low so he can take the snap easier. The higher he stands, the farther back he has to be.

I will try lowering him so we can try to soften the snap even more.  

I pull the Inside Tackle on counters which gives me a stagger with the 3 back and also allows me to use a big body at Strong Guard to lead the wedge and a quicker puller at IT to pull on counter. I move that SG over to the Quick side to give a balanced line and he is still the apex of my wedge. So we have backs lined to the right and the wedge forms to the left of center. Wedge is my home run play. We have run it with the apex at the center and at the 2nd man over from the center.

I love the wedge. The last 2 seasons we were in a  Cisar  unbalanced formation and stance(finger tips to the ground). We have a stud OL this season and decided to go balanced because of that.  Our wedge by the line is great.....so it is frustrating that we cant get the snap.  

 


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
Silver Moderator
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 695
Virginia
Middle School
Only / Head Coach
September 16, 2020 2:44 pm  

@hawk2018

 

With a two handed snap I would try to teach the center to push the ball towards the right as it is going back with his left hand as the right hand gets out of the way.  It has to be as soft as possible and it's going to be a feel thing and needs to be practiced as much as possible.  I guarantee it will be worth the trouble when it starts working.  

 

I teach the Jock Sutherland dead ball snap with one hand.  The meaty part of the back of the center's forearm will hit against the inside of his thigh just above the knee.  The ball will wrap right around into the 3 back's lap.  We have dropped a couple and had to cover them up over the last few year years but it has been a very very long time since we lost the ball on a bad snap.

 


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COACHDT
(@hawk2018)
Copper
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 33
September 16, 2020 3:05 pm  

I tried the dead ball snap at first, was working great until I inflated the ball all the way. He then couldn't hold on to it(small hands).  The 2 hand was more natural for him.

 


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
September 16, 2020 3:50 pm  
Posted by: @hawk2018

We are a balanced single wing team.  We run a wedge out of a balanced Cisar single wing formation to our BB and to our 2B.  Our backs are not crouched down with finger tips on the ground.  Our 3b is in a 2 point stance.  Our center is the apex of the wedge, so he must snap and take 2 steps quickly. 

I'm a Wedge guy and everyone runs it differently.  That said, when we teach our standard Wedge (vs. an even front), our Center doesn't have to "snap and take 2 steps quickly."  He just has to focus on one thing, and that's the snap.  He gets wedged by our Guards, Tackles and Ends.  He's just going along for the ride, or as we teach it, "You're the surfboard.  The rest of the guys behind you are the tidal wave.  They will take you where we want to go.  Just make sure that you don't resist."  

On the other hand, we also teach what we call a Power Wedge, which is a G-C-G triple team of their 0-Technique.  In our Power Wedge (vs. an odd front), he has to "snap and take 2 steps quickly" because he is part of that triple team.

Now I have NO idea as to whether that's what's causing the problem in your Center's snap.  But it could be that a snap and "2 steps quickly" in Wedge are too much for him.  Is he having snap issues on plays other than Wedge, or Wedge only?

Keep in mind, when we don't run Wedge, we do rep the heck out of our Center snapping the ball and getting his "2 steps quickly."  But our Center is also getting 150 consecutive snaps in practice every day, alternating his 2 steps to his right, his left and straight in front of him.  If there's a glitch in the snap, he's starting all over again.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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COACHDT
(@hawk2018)
Copper
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 33
September 16, 2020 4:13 pm  

@coachdp

He is only having problems on the Blocking Back wedge.  He is struggling with a soft snap and quickly stepping. But now that you mention it, since he is the apex and my line is recessed, there is no reason to take 2 steps quickly.  I'm still coaching like an unbalanced line  which required my guard(apex) to take 2 steps. Just snap the dang ball and get pushed....

 


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
September 16, 2020 4:23 pm  
Posted by: @hawk2018

Just snap the dang ball and get pushed.

Sounds good to me. If you're happy, I'm happy.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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32wedge
(@32wedge)
Silver Moderator
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 695
Virginia
Middle School
Only / Head Coach
September 16, 2020 4:46 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @hawk2018

Just snap the dang ball and get pushed.

Sounds good to me. If you're happy, I'm happy.

--Dave

I like that too!  Snap the ball and get pushed!  Consider that stolen.

 


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17394
North Carolina
High School
September 16, 2020 5:13 pm  
Posted by: @32wedge

I like that too!  Snap the ball and get pushed!  Consider that stolen.

That's been our basic approach for years now.  We don't want separation in our Wedge.  I like it tighter than a locked accordion.  By having that Center just "ride the wave," he keeps our Wedge tight.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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COACHDT
(@hawk2018)
Copper
Joined: 2 years ago
Posts: 33
September 22, 2020 9:03 pm  

We haven't had a bad snap since we changed to snap and ride the wave...thanks. It also fits much quicker!


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