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Attacking a 5-3  

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Dimson
(@dimson)
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October 3, 2017 5:18 am  

We are a shotgun spread team and we base mainly out of Ace (most people call it twins) and we motion on almost every play. We are playing a well disciplined 5-3 this weekend and I am trying to figure out what plays you guys would run against it. They are what appears to be a man/cover 1 team. But they do not chase motion, they just rotate to it. Up front they play DL and 2 standing DEs. 2 of their DTs play in the A and B gap on the strong side and the other DT lanes up in the opposite B gap. Their DEs are the 2 biggest kids on the team and they play stand up right outside the last lineman. Their LBs play about 4-5 yards back and the OLBs will move out to cover the slot but they do not chase motion across formation, they just shift down. CBs play man and they have 1 really deep safety. They have a pretty aggressive front and their ends just come straight up the field. They cover OK but you can pass against them. Our primary run plays are zone, power and counter and I think we can run trap but we haven't installed it yet. Passing wise, we throw smoke, bubble and we can do jet but we haven't ran it yet. We can throw some down the field but our starting QB has a max range of about 15-20 yards so we stick to shorter routes such as slants, wheels and arrows. We can throw a go route but it has to come out immediately. What would you guy ruin against them?


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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October 3, 2017 8:30 am  

Are you running gap schemes? What is the motion man doing (motioning to trips, into a wing/H alignment, jet motion, orbit)? What is your base running play?


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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October 3, 2017 8:56 am  

Are you running gap schemes? What is the motion man doing (motioning to trips, into a wing/H alignment, jet motion, orbit)? What is your base running play?

We have two motions, short motion into a wing/H and long motion into trips. We primarily run zone read but we have been working on power and counter too.  This team auto blitzes their corners if they don't have a man to cover. And I said, they do not chase motion. Their corners are small but they are fast and they can tackle.


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blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
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October 3, 2017 1:05 pm  

So it looks like a 5-1 Double Eagle aka "46 Guts" when you spread 'em out?

Line up in 2X2 and run Counters and QB Power all night long.


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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October 3, 2017 1:10 pm  

So it looks like a 5-1 Double Eagle aka "46 Guts" when you spread 'em out?

Line up in 2X2 and run Counters and QB Power all night long.

Could you describe that to me? How do you run counter and power without an H back?


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Beansko82
(@beansko82)
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October 3, 2017 1:27 pm  

Could you describe that to me? How do you run counter and power without an H back?

I'm not coacharnold, but we did this last season by using the QB as the ball carrier and the RB wraps/kicks in lieu of FB/H-back. 


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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October 3, 2017 1:56 pm  

I'm not coacharnold, but we did this last season by using the QB as the ball carrier and the RB wraps/kicks in lieu of FB/H-back.

How is the RB going to wrap when he is in the backfield?


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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October 3, 2017 2:14 pm  

The rb would not technically wrap but would lead like on iso. We used to run what looked like zone read as far as backfield action. The oline blocked counter while the qb would give/pull on our call. It puts the runner 1x1 with the mlb who is going to be influenced by the fake. If you read the guards its easy to stop but how many youth backers actually do that? Plus, you can combo to the backer on play side to help out. Or not if you want a double.


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Beansko82
(@beansko82)
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October 3, 2017 3:02 pm  

My terminology was off but yeah,  PSLCOACHROB said it.  We also tried to run like the old Counter Trey, pulling the backside G&T with the RB filling after a ball fake but we could never get it down.  Had much more success running it like I described to the QB.


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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October 3, 2017 4:47 pm  

We worked on QB counter today. It can be a big play for us, if we get a good snap and block.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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October 3, 2017 5:18 pm  

Trap as well. In shotgun you can run it tighter.


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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October 3, 2017 5:28 pm  

Trap as well. In shotgun you can run it tighter.

Trap will be money but with these guys it is going to take some time. 1, I am not as good at explaining things as I thought and 2 these guys take a while to pick things up and don't always think for themselves. This team has been out of sorts all year and we are finally going in the same direction and they are starting to trust me. Now we just have to get our confidence up. We have a kid that just joined our team and he has all the physical tools and if he is as good in pads as he is out of them, we will have a huge, huge weapon. He is tall, athletic, fast and has hands for days. Now it is just up to me to get him in the right spot so he can do some damage.


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blockandtackle
(@coacharnold)
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October 4, 2017 6:21 am  

Could you describe that to me? How do you run counter and power without an H back?

If you're truly 4 wide and don't want those WRs kicking out a DE, you can use the RB as the kick out block for QB Power and fake it to him and have him fill for the BST on QB Counter.

Another way to run it is to read the BSDE on Counter to keep him honest.  Have the QB just hand the ball off to the RB on a counter while watching the BSDE.  If BSDE chases the pulling T, QB pulls the ball and gets around the edge.  Against this double eagle front, you'd need to cut the splits down and have the C block back on the backside 3 tech while PSG blocks down on the NG.  That is a real pain to stop, especially if the MLB is keying the Gs and flowing with them.  Whatever the defense does, they're either going to be outnumbered or give up a big play on the backside.

There's also Power Read: QB reads the PSDE for a sweep or pitch while the BSG wraps to PSLB.  You can run this to the same side as the back for a toss or run it with the RB going across the QB's face for a sweep.


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Dimson
(@dimson)
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October 4, 2017 7:38 am  

I plan on using motion to run power and counter. I really like the power read a lot and plan on using as part as a package. We had our starting QB taken off the team by his dad due to lack of effort so now I have to find a guy to step up and take his place. Going to be interesting.


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
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October 4, 2017 7:44 am  

Why are you so in love with motion? If you are trying to put in a new qb this week just stay in twins or line the slot up at H. Don't complicate it for the new guy. And please don't try to run a read game until you have a bunch of reps. Call it based on what the bsde does for a zone read look. I'm telling you, it works.


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