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CoachV
(@coachv)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 14
May 27, 2017 2:48 pm  

Hello all-

I'm new to the forum so hopefully I can get some feedback from all of you that have been on here for awhile.

How many on this site have run or seen a spread offense work at the 10u level?

I have been reading on here and looking online and I'm particularly interested in the Glen Harris DVD's and I downloaded the Big CoCo playbook.

About 75% of our team (22 total) are returning players that will be in their second year. We used a Single Wing system last year (Dave Cisar). We went 1-8 in a league that allows kids to play starting in 1st grade. So some teams we were playing already has 2-3 years on us.

Here is what I'm working with:
OLINE- I used two kids to pull last year and they did very well and could deliver some crushing blows- and I also some kids in 90-110lb range that are relatively athletic. We picked up a few more "Big Skilz", as we call them, that I think can do very well.
QB- kid can throw and run- has never been formally trained as QB so his footwork and mechanics need major help- more of a natural athlete
SE/WR- I have one kid who is not terribly fast but has GREAT hands. He is a little on the shorter side. I have another kid we just picked up that is very fast but I have not seen him catch yet
RB- my son played RB last year- he is small but extremely fast- he scored the vast majority of our points last year in the Single Wing on 16 Powers and a few sweeps. He has trained for the past 12 months with Arlen Harris and Trevor Gaylor of St Louis MO. So his skills have increased since his first season.

So a few more follow up questions-
1. Can a kid at 60 lbs play the "FB" position in the Glen Harris Spread Run or should I be putting a kid I know will be slower but maybe a tad bit harder to bring down?
2. Is it realistic to expect success changing from a Single Wing to Spread?

Here is my reasoning and I will accept any and all feedback and suggestions. I started with the Single Wing because we were 100% brand new last year. I needed a system that could keep the clock running and get 3-4 yards per my 16 Power. I wanted smaller splits for the new OL and direct snaps to keep turnovers low. We did not turn the ball over once last year and I thing a lot of that had to do with the direct snaps and my center was a good smart player.

My only gripe was things were too compact, we would get bottled up at the 6 hole and our RB would get slowed up. We have a few athletes that if we get them in to open areas and lanes they could do some damage. But the SW allowed the defense to stack the box and it was too congested.

I like the simplicity of the blocking scheme I am seeing out of the Glenn Harris spread- block away from POA and have tackle pull. I like the fact that we could open up lanes naturally by the very nature of the formation and if teams font respect it I could run screens to my slots or bubble to my RB/FB.  I like the JET as I feel I will have at least one slot that will be capable of running the ball efficiently and the other one would be more of my pass catcher.

I am however, struggling on where to put my kid. In the slot or at the "FB/RB" (if anybody cares I have some footage of him on Instagram @cnote_06  if you have any experience with this offense please take a look and let me know where he could best serve the team)

But as always I wanted to do my research and seek the opinions of those that have been there before.

Thanks to any and all that read this and I'm eager to read some advice.


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Michael
(@michael)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 12890
May 27, 2017 2:58 pm  

So you're in St. Louis?

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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CoachV
(@coachv)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 14
May 27, 2017 3:04 pm  

Yes


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CoachV
(@coachv)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 14
May 27, 2017 3:12 pm  

Hopefully that doesn't get me kicked off the site....LOL ;D


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Michael
(@michael)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 12890
May 27, 2017 3:22 pm  

That's where I'll be this fall.

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22974
May 27, 2017 4:04 pm  

Why not keep progressing with Cisars materials? He has spread formations.

I have been running spread principles since the late 80's and I would not be all that comfortable with a 10u team running nothing but spread formations.

It is easier to pass at this level because the Defenses are not all that great at coverage... yet....but you MUST be able to pass the football a bit more than the norm in order to maintain your Offense.

Spread to me means at least two SE's and a Slot.....so a 5 man blocking surface. Go back and review film from last year. How many 60 fronts did you face? If it was half....that probably wont change at this level. That alone would determine if I wanted to change my philosophy on Offense...drastically.

Oh and if Michael is close enough to you....HIRE HIM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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akpoole
(@akpoole)
Bronze
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 246
May 27, 2017 4:48 pm  

I kind of agree with Mahonz.  Stick with the UBSW.  I've been running it a few years now.  Not Dave Cisar's, but the single wing.  I love it when defenses overload to the power/strong side.  That's when we run the reverse.  If they put six or eight in the box, we run a TE streak pass.  We run sweep passes, and of course, for the blitz heavy teams, we run "No Play".  One thing that we do is flip the line.  So when the defense is used to shifting to our right (their left), we flip to the other side.  I will run a nasty TE on the strong side also.

Another thing to consider is, how aggressive and physical are your linemen/blockers?  Doesn't matter how fast or good your running backs are, if your linemen are not physical, you won't get anywhere.  We do what's called a Wall Drill against an overloaded defense to train our line to block hard/be physical and our backs to hit the hole, (or make a hole if there isn't one).  I imagine that you have to have aggressive/physical players for any and every system you run.

On top of all of this, I actually married Mahonz's five wide passing system to my single wing.  It helps to keep the defense honest.  I'll be doing more of this this upcoming season.  Had my qb and some of my backs and receivers in a 7 on 7 league this past winter to get them accustomed to the passing element of the game.  This is another thing you have to consider if you are thinking of going spread.  Catching and throwing is one thing, but catching and throwing when people are actually trying to hit you is something else!  Again, you need smart, aggressive linemen.

Just my suggestion.  Good luck my friend.

akp

God created five seasons:  Winter, Spring, Summer, Fall, and last but definitely not least . . . FOOTBALL!!


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angalton
(@angalton)
Platinum
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 2551
May 27, 2017 4:51 pm  

Check out Coach Cianflone section. Nothing wrong with running anything you want to run. Just make sure you can teach it. Honestly having different type players for same positions is not bad idea. The teams you face will have different weaknesses and strengths.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never failing, but in rising again after you fail.


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angalton
(@angalton)
Platinum
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 2551
May 27, 2017 4:58 pm  

Check out Coach Cianflone section. Nothing wrong with running anything you want to run. Just make sure you can teach it. Honestly having different type players for same positions is not bad idea. The teams you face will have different weaknesses and strengths.

To clarify a bit. You ask about the fullback. I say train the smaller faster and the larger slower player at the position. The change up maybe quite useful.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never failing, but in rising again after you fail.


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angalton
(@angalton)
Platinum
Joined: 8 years ago
Posts: 2551
May 27, 2017 5:04 pm  

You can expect success if you coach your team well (regardless of system) and your players buy into what you are doing.

The greatest accomplishment is not in never failing, but in rising again after you fail.


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CoachV
(@coachv)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 14
May 27, 2017 5:22 pm  

Thank you all

I have given that some thought for quite some time- continue to build with on the Cisar playbook- I wanted to run that offense in the purest form and then build on it, that was my plan until we ended up not having that much success.

Now, I place zero blame on that offense at all- I know a lot of coaches have had success with that style of offense and Cisar's system in particular

Most of it was us (coaches) Perhaps we didn't have the right kids in the right positions or make the right adjustments. We probably leaned on the base plays too much because I wanted to master those before we installed anything else. I wanted to be conservative with first year players. We paid a lot of attention to our "big skilz" and coached the heck out of them and their responsibilities. But they still played slow which leads me to believe they were still getting confused.

We primarily faced 5-3 last season and I believe most teams will likely continue with that set up.

In the GH Spread playbook I am looking at the blocking scheme seems a little easier for the OL than GOD that we used for Single Wing.

While I have some 140lb kids that I could stick on this line I have more 90-110lb kids that are athletic and more aggressive which makes me excited about the possibilities of this particular offense.

Our kids were as aggressive as one could expect for first year kids and we had some shinning stars by the end of the season that will bode well in a spread or SW.

For the pass game I was thinking a bubble screen, FB L/R screen, a middle screen, and a flood pass.
For run game I was thinking Trap, Trap Keep, Trap Follow, Jet Sweep, Jet Reverse and def LAST/IF AT ALL QB read (nonread)

Take a peek at this and I'm interested in hearing some additional feedback on this SW footage:


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22974
May 27, 2017 5:50 pm  

I kind of agree with Mahonz.  Stick with the UBSW.  I've been running it a few years now.  Not Dave Cisar's, but the single wing.  I love it when defenses overload to the power/strong side.  That's when we run the reverse.  If they put six or eight in the box, we run a TE streak pass.  We run sweep passes, and of course, for the blitz heavy teams, we run "No Play".  One thing that we do is flip the line.  So when the defense is used to shifting to our right (their left), we flip to the other side.  I will run a nasty TE on the strong side also.

Another thing to consider is, how aggressive and physical are your linemen/blockers?  Doesn't matter how fast or good your running backs are, if your linemen are not physical, you won't get anywhere.  We do what's called a Wall Drill against an overloaded defense to train our line to block hard/be physical and our backs to hit the hole, (or make a hole if there isn't one).  I imagine that you have to have aggressive/physical players for any and every system you run.

On top of all of this, I actually married Mahonz's five wide passing system to my single wing.  It helps to keep the defense honest.  I'll be doing more of this this upcoming season.  Had my qb and some of my backs and receivers in a 7 on 7 league this past winter to get them accustomed to the passing element of the game.  This is another thing you have to consider if you are thinking of going spread.  Catching and throwing is one thing, but catching and throwing when people are actually trying to hit you is something else!  Again, you need smart, aggressive linemen.

Just my suggestion.  Good luck my friend.

akp

A spread package is a smart start IMO.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 22974
May 27, 2017 6:00 pm  

Thank you all

I have given that some thought for quite some time- continue to build with on the Cisar playbook- I wanted to run that offense in the purest form and then build on it, that was my plan until we ended up not having that much success.

Now, I place zero blame on that offense at all- I know a lot of coaches have had success with that style of offense and Cisar's system in particular

Most of it was us (coaches) Perhaps we didn't have the right kids in the right positions or make the right adjustments. We probably leaned on the base plays too much because I wanted to master those before we installed anything else. I wanted to be conservative with first year players. We paid a lot of attention to our "big skilz" and coached the heck out of them and their responsibilities. But they still played slow which leads me to believe they were still getting confused.

We primarily faced 5-3 last season and I believe most teams will likely continue with that set up.

In the GH Spread playbook I am looking at the blocking scheme seems a little easier for the OL than GOD that we used for Single Wing.

While I have some 140lb kids that I could stick on this line I have more 90-110lb kids that are athletic and more aggressive which makes me excited about the possibilities of this particular offense.

Our kids were as aggressive as one could expect for first year kids and we had some shinning stars by the end of the season that will bode well in a spread or SW.

For the pass game I was thinking a bubble screen, FB L/R screen, a middle screen, and a flood pass.
For run game I was thinking Trap, Trap Keep, Trap Follow, Jet Sweep, Jet Reverse and def LAST/IF AT ALL QB read (nonread)

Take a peek at this and I'm interested in hearing some additional feedback on this SW footage:

Wait....what?

I expected total suck and saw nothing even remotely close to total suck.

Your kids are aggressive and moving forward. Even your bigs and looking for work. 

Just a guess here....but maybe you went 1-8 due to poor defensive play.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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CoachV
(@coachv)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 14
May 27, 2017 6:14 pm  

LOL- well those were my sons highlights....so those were most of our "BEST" plays. We had 2 or 3 completed Seam Passes and some successful scores on our 43 reverse

The first few clips were the very first game of the year and we ran 6-2 with A Gap crawlers.... who couldn't crawl....or decided that crawling was beneath them

We had 28 kids last year so playing time was big issue so we cycled A Gap kids on every other play.

After about game 3 we realized that we had to stop running that D and switched to a 5-3. It helped tremendously

Our D needs work too so I have to get my HC/DC on this forum too....different section though.

This year we will have 21 or 22 so we can focus some more attention to each individual player, especially on tackling and blocking

PS- I'm not sure why i wasn't on this site many years ago....I have found my new football addiction


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MHcoach
(@mhcoach)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 7637
Florida
May 27, 2017 6:22 pm  

Coach V

In my section there is a power point with our Spread in it:

http://www.dumcoach.com/offense-197/power-point/

We have run it from 10's & up with great success. You can Pm me with questions.

Joe

"Champions behave like champions before they're champions: they have a winning standard of performance before they are winners"Bill Walsh


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