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COCoachKC
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August 2, 2013 7:13 am  

Coaches,

We start to install our offense on Monday (first week has been all about proper hitting form and building up the aggression) and I am thinking that I need to tweak the plan for my receiver play during running plays.  I coach a 5th grade (10 years old) team. 

Right now my base rules are if the man covering you is up tight then run the go route.  The thinking is if the defender doesn't honor the route and plays run then I will throw the ball when I see the press coverage.  If the defender is playing soft (gives a cushion), then we stalk block.

But after reading another thread on DumCoach, I am thinking that I should have my receivers look to block the safety when the defender is pressing.  Sell the path as a slant.  This makes a lot of sense to me.

But what would you do when the coverage is soft?  If you would do something other than stalk the covering defender, then why?

My original plan was to keep things rather simple as my MPP type kids would be playing receiver.  They would get A LOT of reps running routes, catching footballs and stalk blocking since they would not see the field on defense.  But a late rush on registrations resulted in the creation of a new lower level team.  As a result, my receivers are not MPP types but not my best athletes, either.  They are very tall and still growing into their long limbs and huge feet.

I would rather have this right starting Monday than find out August 31 that I have missed something.

Thanks!

Kent


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mahonz
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August 2, 2013 7:44 am  

Kent

My theory…and it was tested to the limits last season as JR and I argued about it all season as only you can imagine….

Running off the coverage only works AFTER you have established that whomever is running off the coverage is a threat. So…a good ploy is to call the fade route to your WO that must draw some respect from the D on the first play of the game. You either hit it for a big gain or its incomplete. But you have established that you will throw to that kid playing WO.

A WO blocking to the Safety is one thing that makes absolutely ZERO sense too me. If your WO is blocking because the football is getting run to a point on his half of the field then why on Earth would you pull an unblocked defender closer to the POA? Think about the distance traveled too. Dumb. That kid makes that block once every 100 attempts.

So stalk block the man nearest to you every play regardless. Last year we got one holding call from a WO and JR had a cow the rest of the season and made me runoff the coverage….which at the Super Smurf level didn’t work worth a darn. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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chucknduck
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August 2, 2013 8:01 am  

You could always have your wide receivers run quick screens on running plays.  If you are in 2X2 and the defense only puts out one guy to cover them, the qb will just turn and throw the quick screen.  The line will just run block. If you are in trips, you may get a three on two or possibly three on one out there.  If they keep eight in the box when you spread them out, just bludgeon them with quick screens all the way down the field.


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COCoachKC
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August 2, 2013 8:13 am  

You could always have your wide receivers run quick screens on running plays.  If you are in 2X2 and the defense only puts out one guy to cover them, the qb will just turn and throw the quick screen.  The line will just run block. If you are in trips, you may get a three on two or possibly three on one out there.  If they keep eight in the box when you spread them out, just bludgeon them with quick screens all the way down the field.

The screen game is a big part of our plan.  We do have a "FIRE" call for uncovered situations.  I am hopeful that I can get the kids to make the call at the LOS when a receiver sees that he is uncovered AND the defense isn't playing zone.  If not we do have it covered as a sideline call.

I was just second guessing the plan for our running game.  I want to have a basic set of rules to follow.  I like having those rules driven by the coverage.

Kent


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COCoachKC
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August 2, 2013 8:17 am  

Kent

My theory…and it was tested to the limits last season as JR and I argued about it all season as only you can imagine….

Running off the coverage only works AFTER you have established that whomever is running off the coverage is a threat. So…a good ploy is to call the fade route to your WO that must draw some respect from the D on the first play of the game. You either hit it for a big gain or its incomplete. But you have established that you will throw to that kid playing WO.

A WO blocking to the Safety is one thing that makes absolutely ZERO sense too me. If your WO is blocking because the football is getting run to a point on his half of the field then why on Earth would you pull an unblocked defender closer to the POA? Think about the distance traveled too. Dumb. That kid makes that block once every 100 attempts.

So stalk block the man nearest to you every play regardless. Last year we got one holding call from a WO and JR had a cow the rest of the season and made me runoff the coverage….which at the Super Smurf level didn’t work worth a darn.

Thanks, Mike!  One of the things I hate about this time of the year is the second guessing.  Why the hell I do it when I knew the plan was sound more than a month ago I will never know.  I promise myself each year I won't do it.  Guess what... I still second guess!

BTW, I have never had a team like this one.  Day three and everyone was bringing it last night.  We will run your ladder drill tomorrow.  Should tell us a whole lot before heading into our installs.

Kent


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mahonz
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August 2, 2013 8:24 am  

The screen game is a big part of our plan.  We do have a "FIRE" call for uncovered situations.  I am hopeful that I can get the kids to make the call at the LOS when a receiver sees that he is uncovered AND the defense isn't playing zone.  If not we do have it covered as a sideline call.

I was just second guessing the plan for our running game.  I want to have a basic set of rules to follow.  I like having those rules driven by the coverage.

Kent

Kent

Another ploy is too include a helmet tap in your cadence progression.  That keeps a CB glued to a WO as well.

WO taps his helmet and then flashes a "Gang Sign" to the QB right before he starts his Cadence every down. QB just observes....as do the CB's.

In the real world this "Sign" means something so you could amp it up and have the WO flash three signs....fake....bubble....one step fade....

That is if you trust them.  ??? You cant go all nutty with real signs because the idea is that its a silent run to pass audible so you dont want OLM illegally down field

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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coachgregory
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August 2, 2013 8:35 am  

Kent

My theory…and it was tested to the limits last season as JR and I argued about it all season as only you can imagine….

Running off the coverage only works AFTER you have established that whomever is running off the coverage is a threat. So…a good ploy is to call the fade route to your WO that must draw some respect from the D on the first play of the game. You either hit it for a big gain or its incomplete. But you have established that you will throw to that kid playing WO.

A WO blocking to the Safety is one thing that makes absolutely ZERO sense too me. If your WO is blocking because the football is getting run to a point on his half of the field then why on Earth would you pull an unblocked defender closer to the POA? Think about the distance traveled too. Dumb. That kid makes that block once every 100 attempts.

So stalk block the man nearest to you every play regardless. Last year we got one holding call from a WO and JR had a cow the rest of the season and made me runoff the coverage….which at the Super Smurf level didn’t work worth a darn.

As long as you can prove the defender covering and the DC that the kid can catch he will cover him down the field...the route is not relevent to the coverman...he just knows the kid can catch...  So often we will establish this with a high percentage pass...uncovered pass is often our first go to pass as it is nothing more than an extended hand off and it often forces the DB to come up tighter.  After that we look at perimeter concepts that are high percentage and power pass...  I have found once a DB establishes that the guy he is covering can catch and he is getting the ball thrown to him he will cover him.

I am a big believer in if PRESS/MAN COVER to run the man off and if ZONE COVER stalk him...it has always worked for me and if you look at our game film you can see many examples of a DB running down field with our receiver and the RB goes by him with the ball... 

Jack

Exsisto Fortis, Exsisto Validus


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mahonz
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August 2, 2013 8:47 am  

As long as you can prove the defender covering and the DC that the kid can catch he will cover him down the field...the route is not relevent to the coverman...he just knows the kid can catch...  So often we will establish this with a high percentage pass...uncovered pass is often our first go to pass as it is nothing more than an extended hand off and it often forces the DB to come up tighter.  After that we look at perimeter concepts that are high percentage and power pass...  I have found once a DB establishes that the guy he is covering can catch and he is getting the ball thrown to him he will cover him.

I am a big believer in if PRESS/MAN COVER to run the man off and if ZONE COVER stalk him...it has always worked for me and if you look at our game film you can see many examples of a DB running down field with our receiver and the RB goes by him with the ball... 

Jack

Jack

Agree completely. Establish that you can pass and your World becomes a happier place. If you are simply splitting out a body...you will get no respect.

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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coachgregory
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August 2, 2013 9:05 am  

The screen game is a big part of our plan.  We do have a "FIRE" call for uncovered situations.  I am hopeful that I can get the kids to make the call at the LOS when a receiver sees that he is uncovered AND the defense isn't playing zone.  If not we do have it covered as a sideline call.

I was just second guessing the plan for our running game.  I want to have a basic set of rules to follow.  I like having those rules driven by the coverage.

Kent

Kent,

You will make your life a lot easier if you control the uncovered...I or my OC calls it from the sideline.  I say that because if you have a QB and/or a RXR that thinks he is uncovered all the time you can burn up plays...  There are also times where I will let the uncovered pass go because I want to run a specific play that defense no matter what.  So I control the audibles from the sideline....there are series where I will let the QB call it but that is only a small percentage of the time and only once we have established ourselves in the game.

Jack

Exsisto Fortis, Exsisto Validus


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COCoachKC
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August 2, 2013 11:10 am  

Kent,

You will make your life a lot easier if you control the uncovered...I or my OC calls it from the sideline.  I say that because if you have a QB and/or a RXR that thinks he is uncovered all the time you can burn up plays...  There are also times where I will let the uncovered pass go because I want to run a specific play that defense no matter what.  So I control the audibles from the sideline....there are series where I will let the QB call it but that is only a small percentage of the time and only once we have established ourselves in the game.

Jack

Jack,

Thanks for the input on the uncovered.  Honestly, I can really only think of twice over the years when my QB/receiver actually got it right.  I will stick with making that call for now.  Since we are 100% check with me that makes the most sense. 

Kent


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Pearls of Wisdom
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August 2, 2013 12:49 pm  

Coaches,

We start to install our offense on Monday (first week has been all about proper hitting form and building up the aggression) and I am thinking that I need to tweak the plan for my receiver play during running plays.  I coach a 5th grade (10 years old) team. 

Right now my base rules are if the man covering you is up tight then run the go route.  The thinking is if the defender doesn't honor the route and plays run then I will throw the ball when I see the press coverage.  If the defender is playing soft (gives a cushion), then we stalk block.

But after reading another thread on DumCoach, I am thinking that I should have my receivers look to block the safety when the defender is pressing.  Sell the path as a slant.  This makes a lot of sense to me.

But what would you do when the coverage is soft?  If you would do something other than stalk the covering defender, then why?

My original plan was to keep things rather simple as my MPP type kids would be playing receiver.  They would get A LOT of reps running routes, catching footballs and stalk blocking since they would not see the field on defense.  But a late rush on registrations resulted in the creation of a new lower level team.  As a result, my receivers are not MPP types but not my best athletes, either.  They are very tall and still growing into their long limbs and huge feet.

I would rather have this right starting Monday than find out August 31 that I have missed something.

Thanks!

Kent

BLOCK THE SAFETIES!!!

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com


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mahonz
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August 2, 2013 12:50 pm  

BLOCK THE SAFETIES!!!

🙁

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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flosman
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August 2, 2013 12:53 pm  

You mean take one step over the line and put your hands on your hips and watch the play while yelling see coach I was open is not the right way.  ???


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Pearls of Wisdom
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August 2, 2013 12:59 pm  

🙁

What MOST of the HS teams we see do:

A)  "Cover 0/Man" = 4 across the board & no deeper than 8 yds.    "Cover 4/Zone" (Quarters) = 4 across with Safeties around 10 yds deep.  If you do not block the Safeties on these - they will be AT the LOS waiting on your runner!  When the TE BLOCK - they are AT the LOS quick as a "duck on a June-bug"!

B)  "Cover 1/Man-Free" teams use their F/S in run support at LOS, & he MUST be blocked.

C)  "Cover 3 Safeties" are a LITTLE more cautious in coming up, bui the Safety is STILL a bigger threat to your Off-Tackle & Inside running game than the Corner.  "Cover 2" safeties are USUALLY cautious, too. 

My Contact Info: Coach Bill Mountjoy phone: 804-716-7038 EST /  Email: butzadams@hotmail.com


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mahonz
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August 2, 2013 1:32 pm  

What MOST of the HS teams we see do:

A)  "Cover 0/Man" = 4 across the board & no deeper than 8 yds.    "Cover 4/Zone" (Quarters) = 4 across with Safeties around 10 yds deep.  If you do not block the Safeties on these - they will be AT the LOS waiting on your runner!  When the TE BLOCK - they are AT the LOS quick as a "duck on a June-bug"!

B)  "Cover 1/Man-Free" teams use their F/S in run support at LOS, & he MUST be blocked.

C)  "Cover 3 Safeties" are a LITTLE more cautious in coming up, bui the Safety is STILL a bigger threat to your Off-Tackle & Inside running game than the Corner.  "Cover 2" safeties are USUALLY cautious, too.

🙂

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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