It wasn't me, but I might steal it!

I'm in a similar boat. We couldn't practice in pads because the heat index was around 110 last week. We spent most of the time blocking shields and tackling yoga balls. I'm hoping that this builds up their confidence when it comes time to hit.

Posted by: @bob-goodman

In recent practices I've noticed a marked improvement in our players at drills with the rope ladder and dancing around bags and cones.  We told the kids, truthfully, that they were improving.  I'm just not convinced they have much effect on football performance...plus, they're boring.

I'm a big believer in the rope ladder and foot fire drills.  Best thing that we could do to get our big heavies with being comfortable moving their feet and getting mobile.  This translates into better football performance because pulling is definitely a part of football performance.  If you've noticed "a marked improvement" but don't know what to do with that, then I don't know what to tell you.  And the old "they're boring" reply is what I hear from most coaches as to why they're lax in coaching fundamentals.  They'd rather spend their time watching players scrimmage or doing tackling drills...you know, the kinda stuff where they stand around not coaching and watching to "see what happens."

--Dave

Posted by: @bob-goodman

...that agility drills improve players' performance...at agility drills?

In recent practices I've noticed a marked improvement in our players at drills with the rope ladder and dancing around bags and cones.  We told the kids, truthfully, that they were improving.  I'm just not convinced they have much effect on football performance...plus, they're boring.

Getting quicker at putting feet down here and there is fine...if you know in advance that you'll be putting your feet down here and there.  Getting your knees up is fine...if you know in advance that you need to step high exactly here.  Being physically able to cut left or right doesn't improve your ability to quickly recognize which way to cut, or that you need to cut at all.  For all I know, video games might improve their reaction speed better.

I would agree. It's not that they're not technically helpful. I think they're very helpful in understanding who is an athlete. And I think people who don't have good feet improve rather quickly, so it's not a bad in pre-season. If you've literally never moved your feet fast or done 90 degree cuts quickly, then it's not a big deal.

Posted by: @coach-kiff

I think they're very helpful in understanding who is an athlete.

--Foot fire drills aren't administered to find out who's an athlete and who isn't.  They're administered to improved the mobility of the lineman.  They are an EDD because it radically improves the performance of the player, and especially for the player whose mobility and confidence in his mobility is initially lacking.  In the same way that learning form-running helps with their speed, or fit drills help them learn perfect performance.

And I think people who don't have good feet improve rather quickly, so it's not a bad in pre-season.

--Any drill that you do in pre-season but not in regular season is not something that will continue to improve the athlete.

If you've literally never moved your feet fast or done 90 degree cuts quickly, then it's not a big deal.

--It's especially helpful to those who've never done it before.  

--Dave

 

Zach told me years ago that while ladder drills can improve footwork its very bad because you have to look at the ground to run ladders. Eyes must be up always was the point. So I put my ladders away. 

Unless someone wants else did, I know I probably definitely did. 

Ladder drills will only get you better at ladders.  Its a skill adaption, while it will have an athletic or agility benefit because of it's form of exercise, I can obtain that doing many other things more optimally. Ie. Various box, bag, jumping rope, and cone drills. 

If you think about what you're trying to achieve with "quick" feet and "coordination" you can probably see other options specific to football or what ever sport you're coaching. 

This is shared opinion amongst strength coaches at an national summit I went to, I got to talk with coaches from note dame, Michigan, and clemson. The majority state they run ladders bc the head coach (their boss) wants to see them run ladders, not because the S&C coach thinks their actually beneficial. Its actually a running joke in this circle. 

Posted by: @bucksweep58

The majority state they run ladders bc the head coach (their boss) wants to see them run ladders, not because the S&C coach thinks their actually beneficial. Its actually a running joke in this circle. 

Not really worried about it.  Most of the approaches, fundamentals and drills that we do are not shared by anyone else.  Fine by me.  The only drills we do are the ones that are going to give us the biggest bang for the buck, otherwise I don't have that kind of time to waste.  Ladder work is amongst the most important thing we do for linemen.  Meanwhile, everyone else is complaining their kids can't pull and they're too slow.  Something you don't hear me saying.

--Dave

Posted by: @coachdp

Posted by: @bob-goodman

In recent practices I've noticed a marked improvement in our players at drills with the rope ladder and dancing around bags and cones.  We told the kids, truthfully, that they were improving.  I'm just not convinced they have much effect on football performance...plus, they're boring.

I'm a big believer in the rope ladder and foot fire drills.  Best thing that we could do to get our big heavies with being comfortable moving their feet and getting mobile.  This translates into better football performance because pulling is definitely a part of football performance.  If you've noticed "a marked improvement" but don't know what to do with that, then I don't know what to tell you.  And the old "they're boring" reply is what I hear from most coaches as to why they're lax in coaching fundamentals.  They'd rather spend their time watching players scrimmage or doing tackling drills...you know, the kinda stuff where they stand around not coaching and watching to "see what happens."

--Dave

I'd rather work more directly on their pulling form.  That may be boring too, but not as much so as agility drills that don't look much like football to the kids.

Posted by: @mahonz

Zach told me years ago that while ladder drills can improve footwork its very bad because you have to look at the ground to run ladders. Eyes must be up always was the point. So I put my ladders away. 

That's one of the things that bothers me about, not only ladders, but other agility drills that use targets or obstacles on the ground.  They pretty much have to get used to looking down to become successful at them, and then I have to spend my time coaching them out of that habit.  Sure, if they spend long enough at them they can learn to do them without looking down, but most players will need a lot of work to get over that, and why go thru that intermediate stage at all if you can think of more realistic ways to work on skills?

I've never understood the value of ladders and I've never had anyone explain their value to me. At least not in a way that made me want to start using them. If Dave says they are important to his pullers, I'm sure they are. My issue with pullers isn't a matter of "can't", but "won't". I fired my guard after our last scrimmage for moving too slow after being given multiple opportunities to fix it. I flip my line and use FB/LB types at puller so I don't need to spend time developing that skill. I teach them the footwork, show them the requirement, and use tools like the towel drill and tunnel drill to help reinforce the speed required and how to identify and reach their block. 

Having said that, I played pulling guard in scout offense last night during a sweep. No one showed up, which surprised me and I realized just how tough that job is. "Get upfield and find work" is easier said than done.

I used an agility ladder as a pre-practice warmup for my daughters basketball team when they were in 4th grade.  Early in the season (before I introduced the ladder) I noticed that they seemed to be especially clumsy, fall down a lot in live play, those kinds of things.

We got an agility ladder and did a few basic drills (straight line, plant, push off, change of direction type things) and by season's end we saw a huge improvement in their athleticism.  Was there a relation between that improvement and the ladder?  I don't know. We didn't change anything else.

We continued this through their 5th grade season and a little into 6th grade.  Maybe it was just coincidence but these girls were usually one of the most athletic groups of girls in every sport they played. But I do think the ladder had some positive affect on their footwork and ability to not fall down.

I think the common denominator here isn't the ladders working, it's your drilling foot speed and coordination with it with out ladders. 

Which was kinda of my point lol you're all doing the right thing. Just different recipes. 

My reasons for never using ladders:

I have no idea how to teach it.

I have no idea what I am trying to achieve.

I don't like an apparatus that teaches kids to look at their feet. I'm told "Eventually, they will stop looking at their feet". I have never seen "eventually".

I don't see anything in a ladder drill that looks like something I want to see my players doing on a football field. In fact, my fired guard was taking tiny, delicate steps as if he was trying not to step on something fragile. Almost as if he was in a ladder drill.

When I watch a coach running ladder drills, I see 1 kid in the ladder and 8+ in line. Initially, they are watching the kid in the drill. Before long, they are goofing off.

I see a lot of yelling by the ladder coach, but no change in how the players are running the drill. "ONE FOOT AT A TIME!!!", "TWO FEET IN THE SAME SQUARE!!!" 

Constantly untangling/re-setting the ladder after a kid gets his feet caught up in it and drags it 10 yards.

I have better ways (to me) to spend practice time.

Posted by: @bob-goodman

I'd rather work more directly on their pulling form.  That may be boring too, but not as much so as agility drills that don't look much like football to the kids.

"Boring, too?"  I never said that.  I don't have "boring" drills, Bob.  Perhaps you get bored at practice or assume other coaches do.  But we were too busy working and there was never enough time in the day to cover all I wanted to work on.

--Dave