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What to install in a fist season


Seth54
(@seth54)
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Hey I wanted to reach out to the Wing T guys(Terry, Coyote, I’m sure others) and ask what series they build their system off of? I have a Wing T background as a player long ago, but I was wondering what guys focus on when installing the system at the youth level. Thanks


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
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I'm not a Wing-T guy but what and how I work our order of install is the same from youth to high school in terms of scheme and drills.  Core plays, fundamentals, how we teach the drills and their order is all the same.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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Coyote
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Posted by: @seth54

what series they build their system off of?

wondering what guys focus on when installing 

 

Hi Coach

For us it all depends on our personnel  

I coach 3-4th graders.   We generally start install the Bucksweep series 1st, tho we have have started with the Belly series when we knew we had a really good FB coming back and had Questions about our HB. 

NOTE: the biggest lie in youth football is you cannot trap, pull, or fold (cross- block) with 8 and 9 yr olds.  We've been doing it for 7 yrs now. The kid's'll learn what you teach 'em; if the technique is age-appropriate you're good.  Generally, tho, even if they just run interference, you're good to go.

Our offense is built around 4 plays:

A.  Buckshort - Bucksweep action only we deliberately hit it off-tackle (C gap) to the Y & WB side.   Most seasons this is the 1st play we install.

  • PSG – Kick Out DE.
  • BSG – cut up into off-tackle hole (C-gap)
  • WB down block or 2nd level depending on the Def. Alignment
  • FB – fills for BSG
  • QB – no fake to FB, just get turn on the Mid-line and get to the Mesh point with the HB, the Boot opposite  IF the QB doesn't get depth and the BSG can't get thru, we tell the BSG to plow him over...  he'll learn.
  • Everyone else Down blocks.

Biggest issue early on the HB will want to run right past the hole and try to get outside, where he has no blocking and will get clobbered.  We know its coming so, we’re on that from day one. 

Install:   We have a coach work with the backs, using dummies and Firehose position marker to get the idea of where to run. 

  • After getting the backs footwork right [I work the OL at the same time] we add the BSG, to get the HB used to following the BSG into the Hole and cutting off the BSG’s block on a dummy (LB depth).
  • After a few reps, we add the PSG who Kicks Out a Dummy where a DE would be.
  • A few more reps the PST & Y are added as well.
  • Then we run full squad.  (or half line w/ BSG if we're short on people to hold dummies)

We use this progression to get the HB’s used to seeing people flying around in his line of sight and to learn that generally the hole will open up just before they get there.  A couple kids we had to have a coach with a shield threaten to put the HB on his backside if he ran past the hole.

 

 B.    Bucksweep to open side. The WB is the ball carrier.  Teams generally over-shift and/or place their best kids to our WB side.  By bringing both OG’s in the Bucksweep away from the strength of the Y & WB, we tend to out-number them on the flank.  Pretty much the traditional blocking assignments.  Usually pretty easy for the WB to pick up.

Install progression is basically the same as Buckshort:

Get the Backfield footwork right.  Then add BSG for the WB to follow, then add PSG and so on.

The Buckshort and Bucksweep set up our Trap or Wedge = we generally will choose one or the other based on personnel.   The Waggle and waggle pass & HB option pass. 

With either buckshort or bucksweep, depending on the QB and what the defenses are doing, we may add the QB spinner.  The QB simply spins around after the FB passes him – BSG traps – and turns up into the hole.  This play either goes nowhere or breaks big.  Seems its either a no gain, or TD up the middle.

 

C.    Belly to X (Weak or Quick side), We generally hit this in the B gap if we split the X, or C gap if we run double tight (A Split end vs Double tight depends on what the kind of kid the X is) We generally get more mileage out of this than running Belly to the Y & WB. 

If B-gap, we fold (Cross) Block it.  With the HB leading up into the hole.   Its our ISO action.  Generally if we have problems it’s the FB seeing too many bodies in his line of sight and trying to bounce it outside, and missing the hole.

Install:
Get the backfield footwork right.  We tell the FB to try to get his hand on the back of the HB and run by Braille.  Then add the PSG & PST cross blocking.      

If Double Tight, C-gap, we have the HB wall off the DE, the OT will down block and the OG will fold and lead up into the hole.   Same progression.   Footwork, the add PSG & PST.

This sets up our HB counter, WB Belly sweep (Same as our WB Bucksweep blocking), Waggle and Waggle Pass.   We run this Belly a lot, and down by the Goal line, a quick fake by the QB we often find the Y wide open on a little 5 yd out pattern.   Depending on our QB we will run QB follow, after the Belly fake, the QB keeps the ball and follows the FB – who is following the HB – up into the hole.    We like this play on 2nd and short, or 1st down.

D.  Belly to Strong (Y & WB) side.  C gap.

We Down block everyone except the PSG who kicks out the DE.  Install is same:  Footwork, then add PSG and the everyone else.

Because our BuckShort has been so good to us, we generally only run the Belly to the strong side enough to set up the WB counter.   We also run the Belly Sweep off this action with the HB, and waggle and waggle pass, and QB Follow.

 

And, other than an X quick slant, a  Y pop pass, and our 2 minute offense (Bunch route), that’s it.

Basically 4 plays: Buck short w/ HB; Bucksweep w/ WB; Belly weak and Belly strong (FB plays).   Off those we have counters, waggles and play action pass.

 

Our formation variations are mostly with the X.   Either Split or tight;  Over wide to the Y & WB side (an under appreciated unbalancing – you’ll be surprised how often its not picked up) and over on the Y & WB side tight (Nasty).    We will sometime have the HB align to the Y & WB side to get an extra blocker.  Sometimes we’ll align the WB to the HB side to spread the DE out wider. 

A fun goalline / shortyardage formation we use every other year or so:  HB moves to FB, FB aligns as a HB to the Y & WB side, and we put the X over on the strongside in Nasty.   Its unbalanced, we run Belly off-tackle play, counter trey and play action pass from this

 

                                                 0  0  C  0  0   Y      X                                                        

                                                         Q              W

 

                                                         H        F

NOTE:  Q is under Center, not in shot gun, tho this diagram kinda looks pistol for some reason.

Hope this helps. 

This post was modified 6 months ago 7 times by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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Seth54
(@seth54)
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@coyote 

Thank you for the very detailed response. I really like the way you wrote everything up, it gave me a  great visual. A couple questions did pop up, like what is the backfield motion on your Bucksweep to the short side? Specifically are you running that with WB motion where is it no motion (No Mo)? I assume the FB is running his path through the backside A gap, but where does the HB go?

it was also funny to hear you call that buck short, I never heard that teem before, but we had that play in high school. We called that cut back. 121 cut back and our coach was always yelling at our RB to “run it square.” “If you round it off, you are killing your guard’s kick out block.”

I also love the way you incorporate the OL into the teaching progression. Thank you very much for everything here


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Seth54
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@coachdp 

 

I 100% agree coach. I actually have been thinking about this for a while, and your post on the other thread recently about coaches asking you for help with Power when their kids can’t even fire out and block seem to hit that nail right on the head with this line of thinking.

I actually think I do a pretty good job with fundamentals, what I’ve noticed as I self evaluate is is that I’ve gotten away from having a system and I’m creeping into an offense that is just a stack of plays. My club gives us a fair amount of freedom with what we install, and since I’m comfortable with Eing T, I was thinking of installing a few series that could get me back into having a system with answers built in, rather than a grab bag offense. That way I could have a true base to build off of. 


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Coyote
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Posted by: @seth54

like what is the backfield motion on your Bucksweep to the short side? Specifically are you running that with WB motion where is it no motion (No Mo)? I assume the FB is running his path through the backside A gap, but where does the HB go?

Hi Coach, 

We're generally no-mo, FB fills for BSG.    As for the HB...

Our offense is personnel driven, the HB assignment is determined partly by whether the X is a TE type or SE type, and partly by the HB’s natural attributes (big power back or scat back or all-purpose athlete). 

A) In Double tight, we like the HB to get 2nd level to the LB.  More athlete vs athlete.   This is a timing thing.

  • PSG logs the DE.  Tho often all we need is K.O. and keep the DE occupied.
  • BSG is coming to lead outside – gaining some depth after he passes the C.
  • TE (vs D’s we see) is down blocking the DT (C gapper) or on Track (Generally BSLB or trying to get to FS).
  • We want the HB coming through the C gap to get to the LB.
  • For the HB, its pretty much the same as leading thru the hole on the Belly (away from Y&WB). The PSG crosses his face just as the HB comes thru the opening to get to the LB. 
  • He has to time it so as not to interfere with the BSG’s pull.  Normally, the BSG will have enough depth that he’ll be coming behind the HB who is now at the LOS.

 

B) With the X split out, when the HB is biggish or more a power back, we let the HB hook the DE. Looking for a fair-ish match up size-wise

  • PSG leads out, looking inside for the LB (note: usually means he has to get a little depth right away)
  • BSG leads out, looking for the DB

This gets both G’s out on the perimeter.   We’ve actually had DBs turn and run away seeing our OG’s turn that corner. 

 

C) With X split out, when the HB is smallish, we have the HB run a perimeter route to get to the DB. Since most DB;s are smallish this is more a small vs small match up

  • PSG log’s DE
  • BSG leads perimeter looking inside for LB.

What I love most about the Wing T is the versatility, allowing different kinds of kids to play to their God-given strengths. 

NOTE:  We make sure we spend adequate time on the counters and play-action passes off our 4 core plays.   These are often where we make the big plays.

Hope this helps

This post was modified 6 months ago 2 times by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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Seth54
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@coyote 

Sorry for the delayed reply, one last question that came to mind for now. How do you handle A gap blitzers on Buck? BS A gap should be handled by the filling FB, is the front side A the responsibility of the PST?


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Coyote
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Posted by: @seth54

How do you handle A gap blitzers on Buck?

Buck vs A-gap blitzers.

Generally we have both the Center and Playside T coming to the A or B gapper on Buck.

Woody Hayes said, ‘don’t attack walled cities’. If they have the middle clogged up, attack elsewhere.  If they are sacrificing 2 studs, make ‘em pay for it.  

FWIW: We once were badly overmatched by double blitzing A-gap LB's, and got a couple big plays by having the OLine use Extra point blocking to pick up the blitzing and the Y run a Quick Slant behind the blitzers.  Our QB was tall-ish and basically took a long step back and 'jump' passed to the Y.   Not going to make a living that way, but... 

So, unless you’ve got a situation like Lawrence Taylor running through the Detroit Lion’s OLine [What a nightmare that game was for us Lion’s fans;  Yes, me and that other guy are still keeping the faith] …

 

We play our Oline as far back off the ball as legally possible.  Our Center extends the ball out as far as he handle it.   Thus creating some space.  [Rule says our OL helmets are no deeper off the LOS than the C’s belt]

 

We’re a draft league, and generally draft to fill FB and OG’s spots 1st.   Generally – in terms of talent – we’ll match up pretty well with the LB’s the Bad Guys' draft.  Our FB and OGs are generally the type you’d play at LB themselves.

 

When not pulling / trapping we generally handle the A-gap blitz just fine w/ downblocking. 

We may have to close the angle down on the first (replacement) step from 30 degrees to flat.

 

Backside fill for pulling / Trapping G: we tell out FB this is when he gets revenge on the LB’s for tackling him.  Put that LB in his cross-hairs and get some pay back.   

 

Frontside: we have both our C and T pretty much coming almost flat for the A-gapper anyway, 3 pt or 2 pt doesn’t matter much to them.  If the C can handle the A-gapper, the T will stay on his track to 2nd level.  

It's usually when they have both a B-gapper and Blitzing the A-gap that we have to make an adjustment. 

we see if the C can pick up the blitzer on his own. 

If the C can’t pick up that kid for some reason; we run Buckshort with just the backside OG kicking out the playside DE. Playside OG will down block. 

Some seasons (due to poor drafting, injuries, whatever) we have had only had one OG pull /trap, the other Downblocking everything.

We prefer bringing both OGs, but sometimes we’ve had to adjust to our personnel. “It’s the Jimmies and the Joes, not the Xs and the Os.”

 

Hope this helps

This post was modified 5 months ago by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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Seth54
(@seth54)
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Thanks, these posts are gold. Lots of food for thought that I’d have never come up with and a few ideas I had, but likely would have been afraid to try without hearing they worked from someone who has seen it on grass. 

Side bar. I have a friend who moved to the Detroit area recently. He put it best when he said, even Lions fans hate the Lions. Now that’s a tough franchise to stick with


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
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Posted by: @seth54

Hey I wanted to reach out to the Wing T guys(Terry, Coyote, I’m sure others) and ask what series they build their system off of? I have a Wing T background as a player long ago, but I was wondering what guys focus on when installing the system at the youth level. Thanks

Before finding dumcoach we ran Delaware wing t. I played in it all of high school and middle school so I was able to coach a lot of positions from experience. At the time we were 9u.

That said we ran what I knew. 100/900 with 20 series and 80 series. That was it . 

We installed 20 series first : buck, trap, on, waggle.  Followed by belly and down (g scheme) with the pass of off down(g). 

Our first game and most of the season was 20 series and 83 or open side belly only.  

Seeing 9 year old run waggle was such a great thing to see. Miss those days.

 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Seth54
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Posted by: @bucksweep58

That said we ran what I knew. 100/900 with 20 series and 80 series. That was it . 

We installed 20 series first : buck, trap, on, waggle.  Followed by belly and down (g scheme) with the pass of off down(g). 

 

This pretty much describes my HS career. We were one of the best teams in Philly at the time with this formula. Buck, Trap, Belly probably accounting for 80% of our run game and Waggle being by far our most productive pass play. 

I’ve talked to some friends who coached there and asked for advice about installing it with youth teams. They basically said our high school was so basic you could probably install the whole system. 


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