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Why aren't quick passes more popular in wing T?


Bob Goodman
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I was just reading various youth coaches here who use wing T systems, and I was struck by the fact that, of all types of pass plays, quick passes get hardly any mention in connection with most people's wing T.  Other T family systems commonly install a quick pass of some sort as one of their basic plays, but not Delaware wing T and most of its offspring.  (I believe DumCoach's is one of the exceptions.)  Why is that?  Is there something about most wing T systems that says they wouldn't benefit from it, or that it's too hard to fit into a series, or that any benefit a quick pass would give is served by other threats?  None of those seem true to me.

I'm referring to such plays as pop pass, quickie pass, 2 step drop (or less) passes, uncovered checkoff pass to a split end, and play action where the fake is just the beginning of "showing" it to the fullback while winding up.

Does the absence of quick pass stand out in any other T systems you know of such as slot T, short T, spin T, or split T.


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ZACH
 ZACH
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All the teams I've coached wing t with had 60 series passing by first scrimmage. We had wheel and slant/flat combo with buck series for first instal

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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Coyote
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I'm a wing T guy, didn't realize that quick passes are not a staple in every Wing T'ers system.  For the most part, my teams find success in Waggle passes, so we tend to emphasize those...  

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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Coach Correa
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Because its a 4 back system and its run based ! But yopu can have quick built into it and theres info out there on it look at bruce cobleighs stuff.

 

Head Coach Tito Correa New Britain Raiders 14-U


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @coach-correa

Because its a 4 back system and its run based !

Posted by: @coyote

I'm a wing T guy, didn't realize that quick passes are not a staple in every Wing T'ers system.  For the most part, my teams find success in Waggle passes, so we tend to emphasize those...  

That's an example.  Sure, it's run-based, nobody expects passes to go in as early as they might in other systems.  But when they do go in, seems it's waggle pass, some drop-back pass, or belly pass before they talk about any quick passes.

Maybe it's because of the prevalence of reverse pivot moves by the quarterback.  But we stopped reverse pivoting on the 20 (buck sweep) series because the Newton Braves HS team did, yet no quick pass.  (I wanted to get our OC to introduce one in 2020, but no season.)

The tight end going to second level to block just seems to beg for a complementary no-look pass.


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coachgye
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In my experience most passes are some sort of play-action of one of the run series.


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Dusty Ol Fart
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Man.  I used a ton of Play Action, Waggles, Teddy, Go Route's.   9 or 10 guys in the Box that 5 yard Out or Arrow route can be Devastating.  Not talking about heaving the rock 30 times either.  Still looking for a combined 300 yards on the ground.   

 

 

Not MPP... ONE TASK!  Teach them!  🙂


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Coyote
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Posted by: @bob-goodman

But when they do go in, seems it's waggle pass, some drop-back pass, or belly pass before they talk about any quick passes.

I've never really thought much about it, w/ my age group (3rd & 4th gr) passing is not a big priority.  We tend to do what works, and the play-action waggle works for us, with the added benefit of putting doubt in the secondary as to whether we're really running the ball. When we just straight up pass, we find 3 step drop works best of our age group...   

OTOH, when I was coaching HS I spent several seasons in the Wing T, mostly Blue/Red formation, our pass plays exceeded our run plays, and we were as much a 4 back running attack as a 4 receiver pass attack.  We did a lot of 7x7 competition, tho, and went thru a period with multiple talented receivers and good passing qbs.  

Looking back, I think it was an adjustment to talent of our personnel as much as the HC's desire to pass.  The Versatility of the Wing T in action.  

This post was modified 3 months ago by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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CoachSteel
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We run a lot of rocket toss from a traditional Wing-T set. One of our most successful pass plays is a pop pass to the TE off of Rocket. QB reverses out and fakes the toss, plants and hits the TE in the seem just as they clear the backers. Hardest part is teaching the QB to get his eyes around to locate the TE. Great play for linebackers that cheat to stop rocket. 


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32wedge
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Wing-T is a series based run first offense.  Quick passes are not a Wing-T series.  I think most coaches at the older youth ages and up are going to have some straight drop passes including quick passes added to their Wing-T offense, but that is essentially adding a few pro style/west coast passes from your Wing-T formations.  It is not part of any Wing-T series such as a Waggle pass is.  I think the reason these are not more popular is simply because Wing-T coaches are run first and extra pass plays are not high on their priority list.


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Coach Correa
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@bob-goodman Im curios now ? how do you run buck sweep without stepping over the mid line ?

Head Coach Tito Correa New Britain Raiders 14-U


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @coach-correa

@bob-goodman Im curios now ? how do you run buck sweep without stepping over the mid line ?

I explained about 2 years ago here how the Newton Braves were doing it.  They'd abandoned the reverse pivot on the buck sweep (20) series, and the QB was just shuffling back to meet the FB and then the HB.  FB has to then bend his path around the QB.  There was also video someone else linked from here of another team doing that.

I've also explained here the way I'd prefer to do it, which is neither the traditional way (QB reverse pivoting before meshing with FB and HB) nor the way described above.  In mine the QB would mesh with the FB before turning.  I also think that way would work better with quick passes, but unlike Coach Steel, my rocket would not be from a reverse pivot.

Come to think of it, rocket is a quick pass too, but a lateral one.


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Coyote
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Posted by: @bob-goodman

Come to think of it, rocket is a quick pass too, but a lateral one

Barry Switzer once commented that his wishbone qbs passed about 20 per game, just that most those passes were slightly backward to the HB's and end-over-end. 

 

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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tiger46
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https://wingt-coach.com/add-a-quick-passing-game-to-the-wing-t/

https://wingt-coach.com/dave-martins-quick-passing-game/

“It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. ”  ― Frederick Douglass


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @tiger46

https://wingt-coach.com/add-a-quick-passing-game-to-the-wing-t/

https://wingt-coach.com/dave-martins-quick-passing-game/

Nothing wrong there, but most of the quick passing I have in mind would have less QB footwork than even the 3-step drop featured as the quickest those articles had.  Like for instance Coach Steel's fake rocket but without the reverse pivot.  Or 2 steps, turn as for FB dive, but the FB lunges past the QB's feet as if fumbling while the QB passes to the TE on an in or a fly, or to the WB on an out -- or even the other way around.  Or the QB just pulls in the ball, stands up and passes to the SE slanting in.  No need to teach pass pro.


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