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Coyote
(@coyote)
Bronze
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 182
3rd - 5th
Coordinator
August 25, 2020 9:19 am  

Greetings Coaches,

This is my 2nd tenure in this league, the 1st was in ’03 –’06, in that period, we ran Belly weak and Trap to death, they were our big gainers.  Buck-short (Buck-sweep run off-tackle instead of wide) was a great play back then, too, but we were able to Trap the dickens out of everyone. 

This time around, we can’t seem to get the same production out of our trap play.  Partly, due to most teams lining up double A-gaps against us, really tight, like 2 nose tackles one each shoulder of the C, tight.  In those cases, we follow Woody Hayes’ advice and ‘don’t attack walled cities’.  What bugs me is our inability to consistently run Trap against more standard even fronts. 

Assuming we pick up where we left off, our next opponent (also 2-0 at this point) puts their Nose in the weak side A-gap, and run a both a 3 and 5 tech on the strong side.   Their perimeter guys are very fast – they seem confident they have better people than anyone else, and can control the edge.  (We intend to challenge that confidence).   We expect to see this against us.   I almost feel like we’re being dared to run the trap (I know otherwise, coaches at our level don’t believe you can teach the trap to 8-9 yr olds).  Can’t see why it won’t run for days, against this…  C takes the nose in the weakside A-gap,  Weakside G traps the 3 Tech…  everyone else goes 2nd level….  

So, I guess I’m wondering how those of you who trap, teach / install it.   Maybe I’ve forgotten something since my earlier days in the league?  Or, someone here’s got a better way…

Never hurts to go back over the basics and see if there’s something we’ve missed or forgotten, or we've not kept up on the state of the art.

Thanx

This topic was modified 2 months ago by Coyote

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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ZACH
 ZACH
(@bucksweep58)
Diamond
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 9393
Coach
August 25, 2020 10:46 am  

Can't trap an A gap defender at least with the guard 😉 you could tackle trap using playside tackle.  Or you can install "gut"  or influence trap In 20 series. 

If the front with wt6 you can just belly and counter them to death maybe some sally series.

 

I can explain it to you, I can't understand if for you.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4146
August 25, 2020 10:58 am  

We haven't run a "traditional" trap in a long time, but last season we had a few "wham" plays, which is similar. We struggled with it and I believe it was due to inconsistency, which led to poor timing. When all the pieces parts start moving around in a trap play, it has to go like a Swiss watch. This requires tons of reps on air, then bags, then bodies and that is something we just don't do. All it takes is 1 player to step a little differently and the whole thing goes to crap. So if I was determined to run a trap, I'd film it in practice and look for the timing and consistency.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachSteel
(@coachsteel)
Copper
Joined: 3 years ago
Posts: 40
OC
August 26, 2020 3:01 am  

Trap is tuff to run at the younger levels. Obviously like you said, if you have double A gap defenders it doesn’t make any sense to run it. Against a more “traditional” alignment I think what makes it difficult at the youth level is the inconsistency of the interior defenders. A lot of times those big slow D-linemen don’t go where they’re supposed to or don’t get off the ball fast enough to allow for a proper trap. We found that out of the buck/trap series a simple weak side dive worked just as well if not better than dealing with the headaches of trap. 


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Coyote
(@coyote)
Bronze
Joined: 10 months ago
Posts: 182
3rd - 5th
Coordinator
August 26, 2020 8:39 am  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

I'd film it in practice and look for the timing and consistency.

Great advice, w/ cameras in phones these days, I'm kicking myself for not doing this already.    Thanx. 

 

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17390
North Carolina
High School
August 26, 2020 11:37 am  
Posted by: @coachsteel

Against a more “traditional” alignment I think what makes it difficult at the youth level is the inconsistency of the interior defenders. A lot of times those big slow D-linemen don’t go where they’re supposed to or don’t get off the ball fast enough to allow for a proper trap. 

True this. ^ But against defenses like that, it won't be necessary to run Trap anyway.  

Against a good defense (or an aggressive one), you'll probably need Trap.  But Trap works best when you can run it a lot (whether in games or practice).  I'd practice it against gap-shooters as well as squatters as an EDD.  In the beginning, tell your D-Lineman which one he'll be (a gap-shooter or squatter).  Then tell your Trapper.  That way, your Trapper will get used to the angle of approach he has to take.  Only when he is accomplished at both, begin to mix it up by allowing the d-lineman to alternate back and forth between both.  You may only have the time and reps to Trap to one side.  We've Trapped to one side and then Countered to the other.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4146
August 26, 2020 2:21 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp
Posted by: @coachsteel

Against a more “traditional” alignment I think what makes it difficult at the youth level is the inconsistency of the interior defenders. A lot of times those big slow D-linemen don’t go where they’re supposed to or don’t get off the ball fast enough to allow for a proper trap. 

True this. ^ But against defenses like that, it won't be necessary to run Trap anyway.  

Against a good defense (or an aggressive one), you'll probably need Trap.  But Trap works best when you can run it a lot (whether in games or practice).  I'd practice it against gap-shooters as well as squatters as an EDD.  In the beginning, tell your D-Lineman which one he'll be (a gap-shooter or squatter).  Then tell your Trapper.  That way, your Trapper will get used to the angle of approach he has to take.  Only when he is accomplished at both, begin to mix it up by allowing the d-lineman to alternate back and forth between both.  You may only have the time and reps to Trap to one side.  We've Trapped to one side and then Countered to the other.

--Dave

Back in the DW days, we learned from JJ and Jack to use trap against a bully boy DT who had success penetrating vertically. Experience showed that you had better practice the HECK out of it because letting that bully boy through unblocked is going all in with your chips.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9503
New Jersey
3rd - 5th
Asst Coach
August 26, 2020 8:20 pm  
Posted by: @coyote

Greetings Coaches,

This is my 2nd tenure in this league, the 1st was in ’03 –’06, in that period, we ran Belly weak and Trap to death, they were our big gainers.  Buck-short (Buck-sweep run off-tackle instead of wide) was a great play back then, too, but we were able to Trap the dickens out of everyone. 

This time around, we can’t seem to get the same production out of our trap play.  Partly, due to most teams lining up double A-gaps against us, really tight, like 2 nose tackles one each shoulder of the C, tight.  In those cases, we follow Woody Hayes’ advice and ‘don’t attack walled cities’.  What bugs me is our inability to consistently run Trap against more standard even fronts. 

In those cases, which position on defense is most often making the tackle?

Assuming we pick up where we left off, our next opponent (also 2-0 at this point) puts their Nose in the weak side A-gap, and run a both a 3 and 5 tech on the strong side.   Their perimeter guys are very fast – they seem confident they have better people than anyone else, and can control the edge.  (We intend to challenge that confidence).   We expect to see this against us.   I almost feel like we’re being dared to run the trap (I know otherwise, coaches at our level don’t believe you can teach the trap to 8-9 yr olds).  Can’t see why it won’t run for days, against this…  C takes the nose in the weakside A-gap,  Weakside G traps the 3 Tech…  everyone else goes 2nd level….  

So, I guess I’m wondering how those of you who trap, teach / install it.   Maybe I’ve forgotten something since my earlier days in the league?  Or, someone here’s got a better way…

Never hurts to go back over the basics and see if there’s something we’ve missed or forgotten, or we've not kept up on the state of the art.

Thanx

We teach trap, and while I know it can be taught to 9Us, it frequently doesn't pay off in many games because your OL winds up doing more work than their DL.  Simply put, there are many starting DTs that age, and many older, who are too slow to be worth trapping.  You'd get better results hitting them with something quicker, like a FB straight buck or a QB jailbreak.  Plus, you should have a quick hitter between the guards even for use against teams with a quicker DL, just to keep them from sitting on your trap.

This doesn't necessarily apply to your opponent who sets up in a 5-3 under as described above, it's just general advice.  Against that opponent, it matters "who" they have at that 3 tech as to whether it's good to trap him like that.  For all I know, it may be better for the strong G to fan out on him while the weak G folds to 2nd level.  Or the weak G crabs or cuts the nose while the C releases.


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Bob Goodman
(@bob-goodman)
Diamond
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 9503
New Jersey
3rd - 5th
Asst Coach
August 26, 2020 8:23 pm  
Posted by: @coachsteel

Trap is tuff to run at the younger levels. Obviously like you said, if you have double A gap defenders it doesn’t make any sense to run it. Against a more “traditional” alignment I think what makes it difficult at the youth level is the inconsistency of the interior defenders. A lot of times those big slow D-linemen don’t go where they’re supposed to or don’t get off the ball fast enough to allow for a proper trap. We found that out of the buck/trap series a simple weak side dive worked just as well if not better than dealing with the headaches of trap. 

Coming late to the thread, I needn't have bothered writing, because Coach Steel was there before I was.  But now you have a confirmatory opinion.


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dbayer66
(@dbayer66)
Copper
Joined: 6 years ago
Posts: 21
September 22, 2020 10:51 am  

i was a wing t high school assistant, but this worked for us:

 

A) if there was an A gap defender, we trap one hole wider, so now PSG blocks play side A gap, C back on backside A gap.  assuming head up or outside shade on the play side tackle.  he should get up to the Mike backer, hopefully with an inside release. TE out on DE, the wing can fold inside for the Sam, we would just tag the word "wide"...some coaches use the "near/far" terminology.

whenever we came to the line, we would have each guard call out the alignment of the DT that we were going to trap, no matter what the play was, every single play.  in our terminology, this meant he was hollering "2i!" or "3!"  every play, every down, all game.  some coaches have the guard point to the guy they would trap every play and holler his #,  however, IMHO, the trapping guard would still have to know where he is and there are very bright kids at any level, who, if they saw the trapping guard start craning his neck to see where the trappee is lined up, would know exactly what is coming.  so in our system, (again, HS) ...if our trapping guard heard the call "2i" then he knew he was trapping the next widest defender to show up.  this was coached in case of a blitz, trap the first kid who shows up past the other guard. this worked for us. iow, 2i was basically a wide call, the FB has to be on alert to hear this as well so that he makes more of a cut to the hole.

 

B) if we were playing teams that keyed the guards, we would tag the word "sucker" this meant that the PSG would pull and trap the DE just as he would on buck sweep.  this takes him off of blocking the Mike, but if their backers are going to fly with the PSG pull, then katy bar the door.  this also has the added benefit of casting doubt on what they were told by their coach and may slow them down on them flying out when you do run buck sweep.  however, i would not run the sucker tag vs the 2 A gap defenders for the obvious reason. we also used to run buck short. iow, the half back who hits the off tackle hole on buck sweep, would now hit the trap hole, this takes some practice as he is cutting right after he gets the ball, but this play can pay some big dividends and can be a great key breaker.

 

C)  one thing that also helped us was what we called the "chip" technique. stupid term but we were out at practice and we needed something fast and it stuck.. we had a scout team 3 tech who after several weeks of getting trapped was getting sick of it and had learned quite well that if no one was blocking him, that he had better get his eyes inside and in fact he started far arming the heck out of the trapper. so we told our PST to "chip" him,  IOW, the PST needs to take his inside arm and fore-arm the heck out of that 3T on his way to the LB.  this freezes that DT or maybe even causes him to widen when he feels that contact.  also, if the LBs are reading the linemen, the down step may cause them to widen a step as well.  the 3T may, over time, realize that the OT is not getting his head in front as many tackles are coached to do, but usually, he cannot tell in the second that this happens.  boy was this kid ticked when we "chipped" him a few plays later and he got clobbered by the trapper again.  added to this, every once in awhile the OT can down block with his inside arm on the buck sweep, just to keep that 3T confused, lotsa fun

 

this is probly stuff you know, but just in case, hope it helps

 

This post was modified 4 weeks ago by dbayer66

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