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topekamustangs
(@topekamustangs)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 208
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I have moved on from coaching with the club i was coaching with for a couple of reasons. My coaching philoshphy wasnt what they wanted. I take the coaching serious i liek to better myself. The other teams coaches would often show up 10 to 15 mins late. In my mind if practice start at 5:30 coaches need to be there at 515 latest i get there between 430-5. They got mad at me because i benched a kid who didnt show up for 2 weeks of practice and missed a game. So i went to my sons school and am starting up their youth football program. Now heres the deal there were over 60 kids from this school district playing for other teams then mine. We have put out flyers and 14 kids from the other program i coached have told us they would rather play now the other coach is bashing us saying were stealing his players. My response was the kids parents want them to play with the kids theyll grow up with and also the parents want there kids in a more structured atmosphere. Was i wrong


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Michael
(@michael)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 12890
 

I have moved on from coaching with the club i was coaching with for a couple of reasons. My coaching philoshphy wasnt what they wanted. I take the coaching serious i liek to better myself. The other teams coaches would often show up 10 to 15 mins late. In my mind if practice start at 5:30 coaches need to be there at 515 latest i get there between 430-5. They got mad at me because i benched a kid who didnt show up for 2 weeks of practice and missed a game. So i went to my sons school and am starting up their youth football program. Now heres the deal there were over 60 kids from this school district playing for other teams then mine. We have put out flyers and 14 kids from the other program i coached have told us they would rather play now the other coach is bashing us saying were stealing his players. My response was the kids parents want them to play with the kids theyll grow up with and also the parents want there kids in a more structured atmosphere. Was i wrong

They're not "his" players.

You can't "steal" people, at least since the Thirteenth Amendment.

They're voting with their feet.

Michael can not receive PM's, emails or respond to Posts. He passed away in September 2018. To honor his contributions we are leaving his account active. R.I.P - Dumcoach Staff.


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davecisar
(@davecisar)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 7679
 

Ive started 2 programs from scratch and worked with dozens of guys to start their own programs

This is par for the course- silly stuff that always happens when new programs are started

I even talk about it in my free 170 page book on how to start your own program from scratch: http://winningyouthfootball.com/startinganewyouthfootballprogram.php

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
Gold
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1670
 

There's a difference between actively / selectively pursuing players who play for another program and general recruiting that yields interest from players from other programs.

Our league is essentially select (teams have 35-40 players - no MPR - most teams playing the best 15-20 out of 40) but has rules against recruiting from other teams. They do this to keep in check coaches who think they need the Patriots roster to win - especially in situations like the league All-Star game where they have ready access to other team players.

That said, as Dave pointed out, nobody owns anyone. It's funny that coaches think once a kid plays for him once they owe him loyalty for life. I've actually seen coaches from other programs make Facebook posts questioning the character of kids who switch teams.

While our league has rules about it, we've had several teams from other surrounding leagues try to poach our kids. I don't worry too much about it - just try to give them the best experience possible and my retention rate has been > 90% each year.

Point being, there's a reason those kids are leaving and it has nothing to do with "stealing." But don't expect their coaches to look at themselves for why that's happening, that's rare quite frankly. Most will blame you / the kids / the abominable snowman / etc.

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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PSLCOACHROB
(@pslcoachrob)
Kryptonite
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 12408
 

Those damn Yetti ruin everything. No, you are not wrong. Trying to provide a better football experience for kids is a great thing. You seem to be doing it for the right reasons so stay the path. Check out Dave's book btw.


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davecisar
(@davecisar)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 7679
 

What GP says is 100% spot on, I agree

Selective recruiting, cherry picking- just taking the best kids is BS
Never been a fan of that- puts 100% of the power in the hands of parents, they are doing you a favor by being on their team

If it isn't selective recruiting then it's just sour grapes- which happens A LOT in youth football. It happened both times I started new programs, absolute childish/ridiculous stuff.

Very few people will ever admit they are wrong, they point fingers, go on the attack, make excuses. It's epidemic in youth football, sad but true.

The net is if you build a good program and are successful, people vote with their feet, they will stay. If you are doing all the right things and executing on your mission AND SOME people still leave, that's GOOD TOO. That means they weren't a fit.

Ive had a handful of kids leave, more power to them. If it wasn't a good fit and they can be better served by playing for someone else- great. Last thing I want is for someone to quit playing football altogether or be resentful about playing for me.  Most times once they leave they see the grass isn't greener, they want to come back. Most - not all times then parental pride keeps them from coming back, even though the kid wants to. All good stuff.

Over the long term the better run programs survive and thrive and the weaker ones wither and die, as they should.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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GP
 GP
(@gpenn44)
Gold
Joined: 9 years ago
Posts: 1670
 

If it isn't selective recruiting then it's just sour grapes- which happens A LOT in youth football. It happened both times I started new programs, absolute childish/ridiculous stuff.

Very few people will ever admit they are wrong, they point fingers, go on the attack, make excuses. It's epidemic in youth football, sad but true.

Why do you think that is, Dave? I see it all the time and it amazes me. Is it simply incompetence meets ego or do you think there's more to it?

Just finished my 3rd season coaching and the last two seasons I've taken over previous 0-fer teams - both years we finished .500. Solid improvement but I feel we could've done better.

For ex this year, we had the youngest / smallest team in the league (suited up only 15-16 every game) but I still think we could have been 9-2 instead of 5-5-1 had I done better. I say this bc other than the champs who beat us soundly twice reg season (and again in playoffs), we beat or tied every team in the league down the stretch. We beat teams in November who SPANKED us in September / October.

When we lose a game, I look objectively at why. Other than occasionally being grossly over matched, I almost always find there are things I could have done better - either in practice or in game - where we would have won.

When I explain that to the team, the ACs are quick to point out that we didn't win a game before I got there but IMO that doesn't change the fact that we COULD have won that game had I done certain things better.

Looking at those things is the only way I know how to get better. Then we adjust going fwd.

Same if we lose a player - I examine why. If it just wasn't a good fit, better for everyone. But in some cases, it's made me look at my coaching methods / approach and adjust certain things for the better.

We have a coach in our program who is 1-24 the last 3 seasons (not competitive losses either). I took over his 14U team this year that was 0-17 the previous two years. Yet none of it was his fault - it's that the kids aren't players, he doesn't have adequate resources (yet we seemed to manage this year  ::)), parents cause problems, etc. Just amazes me.

"Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated." - Lou Holtz


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davecisar
(@davecisar)
Diamond
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 7679
 

Coach

Not sure

Lack of accountability, embarrassment, blame shifters- heck maybe it's just a sign of the times- it's epidemic in our society today

As to standards I hear you. This year we mercy ruled a team in Reno- (this team never had a mercy rule win in 6 years) and I was very disappointed in several aspects of our play. Our first day back, practice wasn't very "fun".  The coaches, parents and players thought I was nuts. Play to legit potential- if goal isn't met, don't be satisfied until it is.

However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results.Winston Churchill


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mahonz
(@mahonz)
Kryptonite
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 23132
 

In my League once a player is rostered on your team....you own them. No coach in the entire League can recruit a kid from your team and our League covers a very large area. Each Org has strict boundaries that you cannot cross once rostered without a process. 

The only avenue out for the player is to Waiver to a neighboring Org or to go into the Blind Draft if the particular Org you are playing in fields more than one team in your age group. Its one of the pitfalls when your League has virtually no competition when it comes to other Leagues. There are few choices. The Org I coach in has ZERO competition because any other League is just too far away for the Parents to consider.

Too big to fail about sums it up.

We recruit but can only recruit kids that have never played in our League or have not played in the League for 2 seasons. We also have a means to cut players in a round about way but only do so if we are a D1 team. Basically any kid that goes into the Blind Draft cannot request a particular team but can request a particular Division. So we will suggest to a MPP type to go back into the draft and request D3 so that he can start rather than ride the pine. Its tough...but at the end of the day its a positive of these particular players. Plus it gives us room to add players to fill a need on the team since our Roster numbers are limited by Rule.

Its the one thing I do not like about our Format. We classify Children all too often and there is no real "out" for them. I'll take loyalty above all else....but sometimes I cant be loyal myself. 

What is beautiful, lives forever.


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topekamustangs
(@topekamustangs)
Bronze
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 208
Topic starter  

I have had more calls from players on that team. I have turned them down because they arent in my sons school district and im already at 20 players in that grade. The last one i turned down was the best RB/DE in the league, but i stuck to my guns and said im staying with the kids in my school district. His dad then asked me what team i recommeneded for his son was i wrong to give him info to the best team in the area.


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