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Q: Should we run the H.School's Off / Def?

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Coyote
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Coaches, 

Question… how do you feel about adopting your H.School’s offense / defense whole cloth? 

The local High School HC is going to put on a coaches clinic for our league.   I’ve spent some time with him, picking his brain, he is open and generous in sharing and the guy knows his stuff [His Dad was college HC, and he played for Fisher DeBerry at Air Force – whom I consider the best College Football coach of his era] he has an impressive background all around.  I really do like the guy.

He has long wanted everyone in our league to run his stuff.  My 1st yr with our team we ran his offense.  Problem…  his running game is predicated on having a passing game.  Without a legit threat of the pass, the run game is not all that effective [ Both for his team and our ours].  3rd and 4th grade is not really a pass-friendly age group.

I’m excited for the clinic, and more than ready to adapt his nomenclature … and his base run play is very similar to our Buck-short…  but both the HC and I need some persuading to go all in on his offense, esp. since we’ve tried it before. 

I know if I were a HS HC I’d want kids introduced to the offense / defense early, and some of the more successful programs in our state, the kids run the H.S. stuff from 7U right on up.   Still, tho, my loyalty belongs to my kids, not the H.School, so, what is better for my kids? 

Your thoughts?

Thanx

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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chucknduck
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I wouldn't do it myself.

I mean, if you want to learn the high school schemes and use them that is fine.  But there's a good chance most of the kids on a third and fourth grade team will not even play for this coach.  The coach may not even be there by then.  He may even change schemes by that time.  The kids may move or just not play football in high school.

Personally, I've put too much time in on learning what I do now.  I'd be taking a big step backwards running something different.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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gumby_in_co
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So many cons and I can't think about a single pro.

If I were a HS coach, I wouldn't want some random youth coach hacking up my offense anyway. I asked my OC last year to run my offense. We were so far apart, I didn't recognize it and I was standing next to him for every practice. 

Besides, my kids will go to 1 of 5 high schools.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @coyote

Question… how do you feel about adopting your H.School’s offense / defense whole cloth? 

--Why would I adopt theirs when I know that mine is better?

he has an impressive background all around.

--Wouldn't matter to me.  He's not coaching MY team, and I'm not coaching HIS team.

I really do like the guy.

--Wouldn't matter to me.

He has long wanted everyone in our league to run his stuff. 

--Then my guess is, he's not good at teaching his own stuff, OR he doesn't care if others muck it up.

My 1st yr with our team we ran his offense.  Problem… 

--And you didn't learn your lesson then?

I’m excited for the clinic, and more than ready to adapt his nomenclature

--My guess is that you're not happy with your own defense.

but both the HC and I need some persuading to go all in on his offense, esp. since we’ve tried it before. 

--And yet here you are again.

I know if I were a HS HC I’d want kids introduced to the offense / defense early,

--NOT me.  I'm confident in my teaching skills whether I'm teaching a 4-year starter or a first-time player.  For years, I've preferred to have "blank slate" players who've never played before so that I can teach them our scheme and style of play.  Having "played before," or "having learned their system at a younger level" is a load of hooey.  The only thing that will prepare them for that coach and his scheme at that level is for players to be coached by that coach in that scheme at that level.

Your thoughts?

--I'm hired to coach MY team the best way I know how.  If you don't know how, then by all means solicit someone else's scheme/system/approach and digest it.  However, to prepare my kids to play for someone else is of no value.  That coach will still play a more talented kid with no experience over a lesser talented kid who played in his system back when he was a 4th grader.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @coachdp

That coach will still play a more talented kid with no experience over a lesser talented kid who played in his system back when he was a 4th grader.

--Dave

 

100%

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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We have local youth coaches ask us about this fairly frequently. We have been a powerhouse in our state for 20 years. Same HC and key coaches during that entire run. I can say with 100% certainty that the least important factor in that run has been our schemes. Our offense and defenses have changed a decent amount over that time. The language and systems for calling both bare no resemblance of what they were even 4 years ago.

IMO the best thing you can do for your player's that would also help your local HS program is 1-try to make your guy's LOVE the game 2-teach them to block 3-teach them to tackle.

That said, I would think about investigating what they do that might specifically be helpful to both parties...that might be worth finding out.

An example would be to ask if they use a specific tackling system. We were one of the very early adopters of the Atavus system and we will likely never change that. Our defensive guys say that has been a total gamechanger for us and the statistics reflect that. Atavus has an amazing progressive system and there are several other's out there that are really good as well. Maybe that's something they would be willing to share with you.

 

 

 


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @seabass

IMO the best thing you can do for your player's that would also help your local HS program is 1-try to make your guy's LOVE the game 2-teach them to block 3-teach them to tackle.

 

 

 

That is just about word for word my approach when it comes to "getting them ready for HS". I learned over the last 4 years that even the most hardcore football guys at some point thought about quitting due to the rigors of HS football. The demands can be overwhelming. The only thing that keeps them going through Spring/Winter workouts, 2 a days, fundraisers, retreats, etc etc etc is the love of the game.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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gumby_in_co
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Volunteered to help with a sh*t show rookie camp last night. Talked to a HS coach who had my MVP Center for 4 years. 3 year starter on Varsity. A resurgent team who made it to the 2nd round of the playoffs in the state's largest division. He called my guy "an extra coach on the field". He was All Conference last season. I can guarantee you that our offense was as far from the HS offense as you can possibly get.

  • End over end "dead snap" vs spiral shotgun snap
  • Mega splts
  • Cut blocking a stud NT
  • Hands vs shoulder blocking

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@gumby_in_co 

Good example...and that kid even played the same position when many kids don't.


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Coyote
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Coaches

I don't know if I have thanked you enough for your input.   Perhaps the greatest benefit for me since I've been here is having you guys act as a sounding board and being able to bounce things off of you, and have my thinking stimulated.  

I really appreciate this group. 

Umm.... why does that 6 ft tall 9 yr old have a goatee...?


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CoachDP
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Posted by: @coyote

Coaches

I don't know if I have thanked you enough for your input.   Perhaps the greatest benefit for me since I've been here is having you guys act as a sounding board and being able to bounce things off of you, and have my thinking stimulated.  

I really appreciate this group. 

The best way to learn is to seek out learning.  Many coaches won't do this.  They'll post their tales of woe and then look for confirmation that their problem lies with the players, parents, opponents, referees, etc.; anyone and everyone but them.  If you give them something that points at them, they become combative which always amazes me because the simplest and easiest fix lies with yourself and what/how you do it; not with the players, parents, opponents, referees, etc.  I'd rather it be me that I need to fix; not something else that I have little to no control over.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
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Posted by: @seabass

@gumby_in_co 

Good example...and that kid even played the same position when many kids don't.

True. Our longtime QB played MLB for the same team as my Center. He was All State and got a D1 offer.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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That happens a LOT. We have 2 ex-QB's currently playing LB in the Pac-12. We have a ton of kids that change positions even while they are with us from 9th-12th. The really big kids are really the only kids who stay put from start to finish.


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J. Potter (seabass)
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@gumby_in_co 

I don't know why so many adults insist on stripping all of the fun out of the game. 

My first HS coaching job required very little commitment from anyone but was absolutely miserable for all involved. It's as if the leadership sat around contriving ways to make the experience miserable. The ONLY upside was that we weren't together all that often. The commitment requirement was very minimal.

Conversely, my current school is ALWAYS doing something. There is only a 6 week period of the entire year where there isn't something going on that's football related. Everything outside of the season is truly optional but we get great participation from guy's that aren't in another sport. The big difference is that we always have fun! Everybody is excited to be together (both coaches and player's) so none of it feels like work. Our HC has created that atmosphere and he'll remind you if you drift from the mission.

Freshman spring practice starts today. The older guys don't start until next week but I'll be shocked if we don't have 100 10-12's at today's practice. This week is mandatory for the entire staff and all 32 of us will be there with a detailed script. There will be no standing around or yelling but there will be music, lots of smiles and hugs!


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Bob Goodman
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Posted by: @coyote

Coaches, 

Question… how do you feel about adopting your H.School’s offense / defense whole cloth? 

The local High School HC is going to put on a coaches clinic for our league.   I’ve spent some time with him, picking his brain, he is open and generous in sharing and the guy knows his stuff [His Dad was college HC, and he played for Fisher DeBerry at Air Force – whom I consider the best College Football coach of his era] he has an impressive background all around.  I really do like the guy.

He has long wanted everyone in our league to run his stuff.  My 1st yr with our team we ran his offense.  Problem…  his running game is predicated on having a passing game.  Without a legit threat of the pass, the run game is not all that effective [ Both for his team and our ours].  3rd and 4th grade is not really a pass-friendly age group.

I’m excited for the clinic, and more than ready to adapt his nomenclature … and his base run play is very similar to our Buck-short…  but both the HC and I need some persuading to go all in on his offense, esp. since we’ve tried it before. 

I know if I were a HS HC I’d want kids introduced to the offense / defense early, and some of the more successful programs in our state, the kids run the H.S. stuff from 7U right on up.   Still, tho, my loyalty belongs to my kids, not the H.School, so, what is better for my kids?

You've brought out how doing so would be inferior.  Is there some compensating advantage?

In the MCYFL most of the clubs do copy their local HS's.  Ours does so, copying off a very successful HS program, and they invite us to their preseason practices to help us practice in parallel, giving their teaching freely.  But none of our HCs actually copy it whole cloth -- either the drills or the system.  Some modify it much more than others.  Partly it's what they're comfortable with, partly what they see our players are comfortable with.

We know if you were a HS HC you'd want kids introduced to the systems early, but most HS and college coaches when asked about that say that, if their players had experience at those ages at all, they really didn't care what systems were used.  The main thing they want is for the kids who'd otherwise love the game to not be turned off it by coaches and administrators, and after that if the kids can pick up some individual skills, so much the better.  Some HS coaches see more negative than positive potential in youth football, because of situations I think most of us know about that turn kids off.


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