GAME 5 - First Loss...
 
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GAME 5 - First Loss of the season  

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JustPlay
(@rjbthor)
Silver
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 559
September 27, 2020 9:49 am  

Well it was bound to happen. We took a loss 40-28. My defense got crushed in the first half. Second half we did not give up a score on D.

This last week they reassigned teams in Divisions. We have been demolishing teams with little effort. We are in the “b” sub division. We don’t get “A” team players. We have to rely upon quickness without speed or size without power. So we got our new schedule. And it was all teams that we would destroy, without much effort. HC called the league and complained about the lack of quality opponents. The league responded in kind and moved our team to the “A” team sub division. We just signed up for 3 weeks of heart ache…

 So the KB defense if fantastic for what we have talent wise, but today we got manhandled. We faced a team with very little top-end speed. What they did have was an amazing line. We were wedged to death. 4 yards at a time. KB has a base of 4 defensive linemen. The offense today lined up 7 real linemen – 200+lbs each, compared to my 4 linemen coming in at of 150 lbs. After those 4 we go down to 2 110lb kids. The rest of the team is sub 90 lbs.

First Defensive series – base KB -blown off the ball – we were not low enough. Pile kept moving us. Adjustment for next series – 4 point stance bear crawl into gaps. Bring MLB from offset to attack side of wedge bring. OLB on blitz to get rb. Result TD.

Second Defensive Series – Oline does not bear crawl consistently. They are scared. We are getting to the RB but getting dragged for 4 yards after contact. Rb is 130 lbs. Boys not used to size and strength. Great form tackles but few solo takedowns. Wedge still effective.  Result TD – exp no good.

Third Defensive series. – I mod KB. Get rid of 1 safety bring in extra linebacker and put him and ng. Create bear front. With middle overload. NG crashing center via dive and army crawl. CB given OLB responsibilities. OLB coming thru C gap on every other play. Result 4 and out. I felt lucky not good.

Half time – 14-13 us.

Forth defensive series same KB mod as 3rd. Did well until RB got outside. CB tried to tackle but ran over. Result score.

O – had a TD pick 6. Score 27-14.

Fifth Defensive series – Same KB mods as 3rd Series – we get a turn over. O goes down and scores.

6th Defensive series – Same mod as 3rd Series – RB got outside – olb – SS – CB all could not take down the back. Result score TD - Right position poor execution. Wedge is still a threat but it takes 80% of our team to stop it. Leave outside vulnerable but we still were able to maintain contain for most of the series. Not sure if I had subs in on that.  Score is 33-21.

O is able to get outside for sweep and score. We can pass ok – but they still pack in the line. No interior running all day. Score 33-28.

7th Defensive series – Same mod as 3rd Series. Boys are getting tired going both ways. We give up 40 yards, but they do not break.

O is picked off at the 40.

8th Defensive series the drove on us 12 plays and went off tackle for 2 yards on 4th down for a td.

Final 40-28.

This was a tuff loss for me. I didn’t have any other answers for what they were doing. The mismatch in player size and strength was something I was not prepared for. My line is beat up. I think they gave all they had. This week we will work on bear crawls, pad level, wrapping up with drive, not just hit and wrap.

Any thoughts on how to deal with being physically out matched on the line please let me know. I was toying with the Idea of having my Ends literally diving across 2 linemen and becoming a speed bump tripping hazard.  

nothing replaces effort. nothing replaces the mind. One with out the other is a waste of time.


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4146
September 27, 2020 11:42 am  

Mahonz and I were talking about bear crawling the other night after practice. I recognize the technique as a necessary evil from time to time. He absolutely HATES it. I look at it as part of a progression. "H", one of the kids in my aggression project is a good example. Early scrimmage, I had to get him on the field, so he was in at KB DT. I saw no value in having him line up only for him to get pushed back 20 literal yards on every play, so I told him to bear crawl. My exact instructions were "Bear crawl for 2 steps, then play football". He got the first part right. Ignored the 2nd. A big part of that is at the time, his conditioning was so bad, it would take him a full 5 seconds to go from prone to upright. Mahonz saw that on film and this is a copy/paste from his email:

"I saw Lar bear crawling him...and it made me wanna puke. What a waste but if that keeps him from skating backwards...so be it. I have visions of #30 from Mountain leaving cleat marks down his back."

This was going in to our first game.  We have now played 4 games and "H" started at DT and played every single defensive snap against a team who has never lost a football game. He had some setbacks, but we had a constructive conversation and he had a much better 2nd half. Instructions to the DTs: line up outside shade of the guards, go with the snap, hit the C in his socks, then play football.

I think the issue is that some coaches will relegate a kid to "bear crawler" and never look back. I've seen it and I think "what a crappy position". Years ago after a game, I saw a kid in a random parking lot wearing a jersey from my club. I was wearing my coaching shirt and hat. We had a brief conversation. When asked what position he played, he replied "Bear Crawler". I smiled, but inside I thought, "That sucks". Mahonz has a bunch of "bear crawler" stories that are the root of his hatred for the technique.

Against a persistent wedge team, bear crawling is an awful job. What has worked for us is to platoon those guys. 

Being physically outmatched on the line . . . here are a couple of things that have worked for us:

1) Get off is the great equalizer. Use DP's "go with the snap" method. Being a microsecond faster off the ball makes the job 5x easier.

2) Don't play the "line game". Unless you have patch rules or other "mandatory front" rules, there's nothing that requires you to have a defensive line at all. Back them all off 3-5 yards, assign each player a gap and have them attack that gap with the snap from depth like they were shot out of a cannon. We did this with a vastly undersized team where giving up 100lbs was normal. We gave up 3 rushing TDs in 9 games that year. Size tends to struggle in space, especially if they haven't been coached to play in space.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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JustPlay
(@rjbthor)
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Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 559
September 27, 2020 12:12 pm  

We have a hand down rule for linemen. If not bear crawling what technique to teach? I think get offs are a place where we can benefit from some focus.

 

How can i run the KB with the DE pinch if we are 2-3 yards back? I want to keep the KB as we are very good at runing but if all we are going to see is 7 on the line with big boys I will need something else.

nothing replaces effort. nothing replaces the mind. One with out the other is a waste of time.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17390
North Carolina
High School
September 27, 2020 12:36 pm  
Posted by: @rjbthor

We are in the “b” sub division. We don’t get “A” team players.

--How are players drafted or distributed?

So we got our new schedule. And it was all teams that we would destroy, without much effort.

--Well that's no fun.  Or interesting.

HC called the league and complained about the lack of quality opponents. The league responded in kind and moved our team to the “A” team sub division. We just signed up for 3 weeks of heart ache…

--You mean, "3 weeks of education."  You have a greater opportunity to learn from challenging opponents, than playing whipping boys.

We were wedged to death. 4 yards at a time.

--What a novel approach!

The offense today lined up 7 real linemen – 200+lbs each, compared to my 4 linemen coming in at of 150 lbs. After those 4 we go down to 2 110lb kids. The rest of the team is sub 90 lbs.

--Age of players?

First Defensive series – base KB -blown off the ball – we were not low enough. Pile kept moving us. Adjustment for next series – 4 point stance bear crawl into gaps. Bring MLB from offset to attack side of wedge bring. OLB on blitz to get rb. Result TD.

Second Defensive Series – Oline does not bear crawl consistently.

--Forget the bear crawl.  Why not cut?

They are scared.

--Scared?  How old are they?

Create bear front. With middle overload. NG crashing center via dive and army crawl. CB given OLB responsibilities. OLB coming thru C gap on every other play. Result 4 and out.

--Sounds like the right approach.

Final 40-28.

--12 point deficit.  Not a blow-out.  Without the Pick-6, it could be a very different game.  Self-inflicted harm does the MOST damage.

This was a tuff loss for me. I didn’t have any other answers for what they were doing.

--Sounds like you did, but your defensive execution wasn't there.  Missed tackles against a good team is lethal.

Any thoughts on how to deal with being physically out matched on the line please let me know.

--Dunno.  Send me the video.  But when you're small, you need as many tacklers on the ball-carrier, as possible.  It simply wears out the runner.

I was toying with the Idea of having my Ends literally diving across 2 linemen and becoming a speed bump tripping hazard.  

--That's for we've taught for the B and C gaps.

--Dave

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
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Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4146
September 27, 2020 4:55 pm  
Posted by: @rjbthor

We have a hand down rule for linemen. If not bear crawling what technique to teach? I think get offs are a place where we can benefit from some focus.

 

How can i run the KB with the DE pinch if we are 2-3 yards back? I want to keep the KB as we are very good at runing but if all we are going to see is 7 on the line with big boys I will need something else.

If you are giving up 50 pounds, then why even try to pinch? And look, I'm not one to look at a 50lb size differential and say "it can't be done", but if you're saying it can't be done, then why try?  We also run the KB, but we have the DE's to do it. The idea behind the KB is to force them to block 4 with 5 or more. If done correctly, nothing can get through A or B gaps. Then, you have OLBs, Mike and a safety to take care of C and D.

With our Amoeba, it was just a disguised 33 stack taken to the extreme. 6 guys, 6 gaps. 3 guys lined up at 3 yards, 3 lined up at 4. We worked out a communication system so each blitzer could announce their gap. We moved around a lot and attacked with extreme aggression at the snap. I work relentlessly with our o-line to teach them how to climb to linebackers. I've seen maybe 2 other teams in 17 seasons that even try it. The result was putting big offensive linemen in deep water. Turns out, they couldn't swim.

6 blitzers, 2 spurs, 2 CBs and a Mike. 

As far as bear crawling . . . 

Rules say you can play 11 at a time. On defense, why wouldn't you want 11 tacklers. Bear crawlers aren't tacklers. So as I said earlier, I always teach, "bear crawl for 2 steps, then get up and play football". Then, I graduate them to "hit them in the pants" or "hit them in the socks". 

I just watched our last game film and "H" stood up on just about every play. On a few, he came in with what he thought was a low pad level and had modest success. When he stood up, he was on roller skates. So, I have a drill I'm going to use with my DTs. Full round representing the C, football on a stick and a pinny on the ground a foot behind where the C's heels would be. We'll work the "go with the snap" concept. They will come off with the snap, hammer their elbow on the full round below a line of tape that I put on the bag. They will pick up the pinny, then I will throw a football one direction or another and they will sprint to the football. As they get comfortable grabbing the pinny without locking their eyes on it, I will throw the ball earlier and earlier so they are looking for the ball as they are moving.

 

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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JustPlay
(@rjbthor)
Silver
Joined: 7 years ago
Posts: 559
September 29, 2020 3:52 pm  

We are in the “b” sub division. We don’t get “A” team players.

--How are players drafted or distributed?

*** If there are going to be two teams they cut the total in half and add 2. The A team gets the first half plus two. There is no draft.

So we got our new schedule. And it was all teams that we would destroy, without much effort.

--Well that's no fun.  Or interesting.

HC called the league and complained about the lack of quality opponents. The league responded in kind and moved our team to the “A” team sub division. We just signed up for 3 weeks of heart ache…

--You mean, "3 weeks of education."  You have a greater opportunity to learn from challenging opponents, than playing whipping boys.

*** true enough. I was hoping to play teams with similar talent.

We were wedged to death. 4 yards at a time.

--What a novel approach!

*** It was lame.

The offense today lined up 7 real linemen – 200+lbs each, compared to my 4 linemen coming in at of 150 lbs. After those 4 we go down to 2 110lb kids. The rest of the team is sub 90 lbs.

--Age of players?

*** 11

First Defensive series – base KB -blown off the ball – we were not low enough. Pile kept moving us. Adjustment for next series – 4 point stance bear crawl into gaps. Bring MLB from offset to attack side of wedge bring. OLB on blitz to get rb. Result TD.

Second Defensive Series – Oline does not bear crawl consistently.

--Forget the bear crawl.  Why not cut?

*** I have never taught the cut.

They are scared.

--Scared?  How old are they?

*** 11

Create bear front. With middle overload. NG crashing center via dive and army crawl. CB given OLB responsibilities. OLB coming thru C gap on every other play. Result 4 and out.

--Sounds like the right approach.

*** yes but it is nothing something we have ever practiced.

Final 40-28.

--12 point deficit.  Not a blow-out.  Without the Pick-6, it could be a very different game.  Self-inflicted harm does the MOST damage.

*** I am not used to giving up any points.

This was a tuff loss for me. I didn’t have any other answers for what they were doing.

--Sounds like you did, but your defensive execution wasn't there.  Missed tackles against a good team is lethal.

*** for sure. teo times it went very poor. We are going practice tackling a big kid today.

Any thoughts on how to deal with being physically out matched on the line please let me know.

--Dunno.  Send me the video.  But when you're small, you need as many tacklers on the ball-carrier, as possible.  It simply wears out the runner.

**** true enough. I took out one of my safeties to add a linemen.

I was toying with the Idea of having my Ends literally diving across 2 linemen and becoming a speed bump tripping hazard.  

--That's for we've taught for the B and C gaps.

*** I will teach it today.

nothing replaces effort. nothing replaces the mind. One with out the other is a waste of time.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17390
North Carolina
High School
September 29, 2020 4:43 pm  
Posted by: @rjbthor

*** true enough. I was hoping to play teams with similar talent.

--I guess we all are.  I hate playing games where there's a 30-point margin, whether we win or lose.  It's frustrating, either way.  But the best education is found competing against teams that have better coaches, better players or both, IF you understand how to decipher the information you're getting.

 

  *** I have never taught the cut.

--It's an easy way to close lanes and shut down gaps, if that's your defensive philosophy.  Personally, I hate playing against defenses that use the technique, so we'll shift to Gun to make it illegal.

 

*** I am not used to giving up any points.

--Then you're probably playing inferior opponents.  That's not a slam on you, but good opponents will score on you once in a while.  

 

*** for sure. teo times it went very poor. We are going practice tackling a big kid today.

--We used to tackle our linemen in drills.  Our linemen loved getting a chance to carry the ball and I wanted our defense to see what tackling a Big Boy was like.

 

*** Any thoughts on how to deal with being physically out matched on the line please let me know.

--As I've said many times, we don't engage.  Engagement gets us blocked.  We are shooting gaps, coming across low and fast.  With our Torpedo Drill, Double Team Drill, Gauntlet Drill, Invisible Offense, and going with the snap, we haven't really needed much more.

 

*** true enough. I took out one of my safeties to add a linemen.

--If it worked, then it's a good adjustment.  I'd probably just brought up my Rover since he's probably a better athlete than an additional lineman.

 

*** I will teach it today.

--I can't tell you how many plays our MPRs blew up from that approach.  So much so, that we started teaching it to our starters.  

--Dave

 

 

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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gumby_in_co
(@gumby_in_co)
Platinum
Joined: 11 years ago
Posts: 4146
September 29, 2020 7:55 pm  
Posted by: @coachdp

   *** I have never taught the cut.

--It's an easy way to close lanes and shut down gaps, if that's your defensive philosophy.  Personally, I hate playing against defenses that use the technique, so we'll shift to Gun to make it illegal.

 

 

 

Legal as long as the contact is instantaneous.

When in doot . . . glass and oot.


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CoachDP
(@coachdp)
Kryptonite
Joined: 10 years ago
Posts: 17390
North Carolina
High School
September 29, 2020 8:51 pm  
Posted by: @gumby_in_co

Legal as long as the contact is instantaneous.

Absolutely 100% correct, Lar.  But when they start submarining, refs start calling it (as long as I'm pointing it out), just like they call us when we cut with the BSTE.  So I will continue to "aid" the official.

--Dave

"The Greater the Teacher, the More Powerful the Player."

The Mission Statement: "I want to show any young man that he is far tougher than he thinks, that he can accomplish more than what he dreamed and that his work ethic will take him wherever he wants to go."

#BattleReady newhope


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